AIBU to ask for your best comeback to this work colleague...

[Seraphina77]

A male work colleague today said to me that employed women/men who choose not to have children should still be entitled to take 12 months off, paid at the equivalent of maternity/paternity pay because "then it's fair".

I was completely sidelined and apart from explaining to him that maternity/paternity leave is not a holiday, I couldn't get my brain in gear quick enough to come up with a cogent argument in response!

Help me out mumsnet... how would you have responded???

I would have told him to pass a grapefruit through his penis and then having 12 months paid leave might be fair. Dickturd.

yes, because that totally applies to paternity and adoption leave, does it

crispysausagerolls Way harsh! I left maternity ward in a wheelchair. On crutches for 6 months. In pain and didn't walk properly for 3 years. Mic drop.

ThatMuppetShow I have no problem people taking adoption or pat leave. More men should take either form of leave. What I have a problem with is gobshite men trivialising pregnancy/birth/early motherhood. Or maybe I just have a problem with gobshite men. Or just gobshites? Jeez Mumsnetters be narky!

Superficially he's right but you could say...
You ask for 12 months off but in that time you have to pass a bowling ball, have your bits stitched, be subject to almost continual sleep deprivation be puked, piddle and pooped on daily and hardly have any time to yourself and hardly any time outside of your home.
Then make a visual of *drops the mic

Your welcome

So how would he regulate this year off work with pay? How many times would you be able to take a year off - after all some woman have 3/2/4 children? How would they get tax relief on childcare they don’t need and how would they pay for the child care they don’t need to keep the economy moving? Who is going to pay my pension if they aren’t having children and will he work more years to compensate?

I have had a female (childless) work colleague say this to me. I think some people speak without thinking.

What I have a problem with is gobshite men trivialising pregnancy/birth/early motherhood.

Well I am a woman and I agree with him - it's not men vs women. His point was, apparently about maternity and paternity anyway.

Giving the right of "personal" leave (or whatever name we could come up with) doesn't negate the need for maternity leave.

I agree with him!

Who is going to pay my pension if they aren’t having children and will he work more years to compensate?

that makes 0 sense

Do you really think less people will have children if they are entitled to take a year off without losing their job??

Of all the bonkers arguments...

Ask him who is going to pay for his health care and pension when he is older, who are going to be the nurses and doctors, the refuse collectors, the folk running the shops, delivering his mail, providing his food, running farms and factories - maybe that will be your kids? It wont be his.

That muppetshoi did say I thought less people would have children if they could get a year off - you said I said that but nowhere did I write it.

Who do you think is going to pay your pension? Where do you think the money is going to come from? We need children to be born as we have a dwindling younger generation compared to our aging generation - thus the pension age has been increased. A decent maternity package is a ploy to make sure future generations are looked after

I've loved this thread, it's been so diverse. Here's my 2p:

1. having children does NOT benefit society, at least not anymore. There are far too many humans on this planet consuming our Earths natural resources and too many of them are filling prisons.... at this point less is definitely more.

2. having children is a choice and I can't abide people who play the entitlement card. Why do folks have kids and want paid leave, job security and special parking spaces but object to others having the same for a different choice?

3. The rest of the working population are paying taxes to fund your choice to procreate including non parents so have some damn respect.

Do I think he has a valid point? Yes.
Do I think what he wants is financially viable? No.

How would you stop half your workforce taking paid time off to go find themselves (all at the same time) AND pay workers to cover them?

Maternity pay is only tolerated in this country because it's a legal requirement... just look at the US. Most workers are working multiple jobs and consider themselves lucky if they are given a week off!

We are very lucky in the UK because what we consider to be a basic human right doesn't exist in many other countries. We need to appreciate what we have, particularly as the majority of our human rights and working rights laws came go us via the EU and as we are leaving who knows what will happen to those rights?

I forgot to say @Seraphina77 he is entitled to his opinion.

As the saying goes: just because you are outraged doesn't mean you are right.

Giving birth to children is a consequence of being female. We have a feminist movement in this country which is why we have won good maternity benefits. Let’s all be thankful for that.

I am not entitled to a prostate check on my company medical insurance but I do get a mammogram. Bodies are different. Controversial to say these days but true!

I have recently decided that the health of a society/civilization can be determined by how much they value family. How the society works to help families flourish.

It's a true statement that families create more stable communities.

If he wants a year off, and he thinks that he'll use it in a manner that contributes as much to society as giving baby humans a healthy start in life, then he can have it.

How will he do it? I have no idea. But maternity/paternity leave is a way to help families, which helps society which helps humanity and our planet.

We seem to have lost sight of the value of our lives and our families. Instead we are pulled into our jobs (which we need to live in nice homes, feed families, etc) but our jobs don't always value us.

I think that if parents want, there should be a way for one parent to stay home. I realize that not all families have two parents but I think it's an ideal to chase in a healthy society if possible.

My mother was a single mother for me. I had all manner of horrible babysitters. I am NOT judging anyone. I would like everyone to have the best possible life for themselves and their children; and maternity/paternity leave is available to help do that.

Yes, stable families with employment and stable communities create a better society. This is also why we all fund education whether we have children ourselves.

I agree with him: sabbaticals. In Belgium a worker could request a sabbatical and the employer had to accept as long as they didn't have over a certain percentage of their staff off at the same time. A few years ago, there was even an allowance for it, but that's finished now.

Well no one is going to want him anywhere near their vagina, so he's probably looking at other ways to get time off work.

"Giving birth to children is a consequence of being female. We have a feminist movement in this country which is why we have won good maternity benefits. Let’s all be thankful for that."

Wasn't the comparison with parental leave rather than maternity leave. Also, adoptive parents get leave in many workplaces and they don't give birth.

@Cocoschaos

How very true 🤣

I have no idea how much you get now, but when I had maternity leave (DC are now 19 and 18) it was about £35 a week, probably much the same as unemployment benefit. as a consequence, I only had 4 and half months off work.

Instead of castigating people for having children and demanding maternity/paternity pay, he could save up and take some time off as a leave of absence (i think there should be some facility for this with employers). People are generally using the time on maternity leave to work raising their child, not lying on the sofa watching Netflix or travelling the world. Or maybe he could live on benefits instead? Where is his ire for people who are also not working and getting "paid" without necessarily contributing to society? Or what about disabled people who are unable to work? Maybe he'd like to have a disability? I could start him off with a good kick in the balls?

Who do you think is going to pay your pension? Where do you think the money is going to come from? We need children to be born as we have a dwindling younger generation compared to our aging generation - thus the pension age has been increased. A decent maternity package is a ploy to make sure future generations are looked after

BUT NO ONE IS QUESTIONING THE MATERNITY PACKAGE!

We are talking about giving a right of leave to anyone, not to remove maternity leave!

We are talking about the fact that the NEED for leave with guaranteed job is just as valid for non parents or non-birth related issues.

I have recently decided that the health of a society/civilization can be determined by how much they value family. How the society works to help families flourish.

so what about leave to care for your dying partner
your sick sibling
your aging parent
help your teen badly suffering from mental issues?

Why would "family" only apply to the ones with a newborn, or a newly adopted child?

I think that in theory his point is fair enough.

A point could be argued that childless people are discriminated against.

In reality , I don't think it would work. How much time should he get off. Some people have 5/6 kids.

If they give childless people 9 months off to compensate:
Then there would be barely anyone in work.
And
Childless people would probably still want more time off.
I don't see how it could work realistically

Instead of castigating people for having children and demanding maternity/paternity pay

Can you show me where exactly the OP says this man has 'castigated people for having children'?

A male work colleague today said to me that employed women/men who choose not to have children should still be entitled to take 12 months off, paid at the equivalent of maternity/paternity pay because "then it's fair"

And what, in his statement, justifies the assumption:

Well no one is going to want him anywhere near their vagina

Many people on the thread have agreed with him. All other things being equal, I don't see why his opinion should make him sexually repulsive.