Jeremy Corbyn - PM by default?

[Considermesometimes]

I am not a 'woke' labour supporter. I come from a long line of many generations of stout labour supporters. It would be unthinkable up to now in my family for anyone to vote for any other party. I would be shown the door at my gp's house for even having this conversation.

However, I am seriously seriously worried, I would go as far as to say terrified of the prospect of voting for Labour this time, and Jeremy Corbyn actually becoming Prime Minister.
I am interested to know how others are dealing with this problem.

I am worried that some of the policies such as seizing assets and homes from people, massive taxes etc. We are home owners and work very hard, it could all be jeopardised.

Forced closure of private schools in this area would be a complete and utter disaster. As it is we have to finish early on Friday afternoons, and do not have funds for every day stationary much less hundreds of extra children. What would happen to our already very full classes of 33-38 with all the extra children from the private schools? How is this even possible? And yet it seems Labour are fully committed to it when pressed on the issue.

The huge privatisation plan of utilities looks to cost around 200 billion pounds. I don't want our money spent this way! I would much prefer better schools and hospitals, and crime to be under control in this part of the country. I can't even get a GP app for my asthmatic dd at the moment. I could not care less about the Utilities or the railways etc. The LP just do not seem to understand at the moment what matters to most people.

The whole defence and nuclear issue. I don't feel we live in a particularly safe world. I like the fact we have some defences against the nut jobs in the Middle East or North Korea. The fact that other countries would not trust the UK under Corbyn to share intelligence with us, and his lack of decision making in a crisis, or even his basic understanding of deterrents is deeply disturbing.

I just don't think Corbyn is up to the job in any shape or form. Nor do most of the party.

I have thought about voting Lib Dems, but looking at the numbers that will almost certainly result in Corbyn being PM. There is almost no chance at all of Lib Dems getting 326 seats. A vote for Lib Dems is a vote for a Labour government probably propped up by the SNP who will demand another independence referendum in six months.

I am livid with the party for allowing this to happen, how is Corbyn still the leader of the party it is beyond me. How has this been allowed to happen? Chuka Umunna would have made an excellent PM, but all the best candidates are leaving the Labour party.

I don't think I can vote for anyone. That is my final conclusion, for the first time in thirty years I will not vote. What are you planning to do?

Dan Carden should quit.

I used to live in West Derby, Liverpool. Safe Labour seat. The prospective Labour candidate has previously made some awful sexist posts on social media.
He's apologised but is still standing.

They only apologise because they've been found out.

I find it shocking tbh.

Don’t be so fucking insulting

It’s just true. If you don’t understand why a Jew might now be sick and tired of giving evidence to people then you have not been observing the copious amounts of bad-faith requests that Jews regularly receive on platforms like twitter.

Why are you not believing them? If there’s no evidence, why hasn’t the problem gone away?

Did you read the twitter thread I linked to? What’s your opinion on it?
Because people who ‘ask for evidence’ often do not come back and go ‘OMG that’s awful, you’re right’. @easyandy101 did, and that’s unusual.

i don't support the tories.

Of course you do. You’ve been called out on it based on your own words several times. A debate about the leader of the opposition logically includes their stance on government policy in any case.

Why is Dan Carden denying it? It has quickly become obvious now that not only was the claims accurate and he was chanting, he has now lied about it too. How did he think it was going to pan out?

Jeremy should have fired him immediately, as soon as it came to light that the claims were true, instead he has feebly offered an 'investigation'. Is this a man who is truly committed to stamping out racism in his party? Right before the election he is happy to take the time to allow a no doubt internal biased investigation take place, and continue to let Dan Carden stand???

Can we even begin to imagine the message that this sends to the Jewish community?

And some people on here have the sheer nerve to question ME why I am feeling at a loss with Labour, and why I don't want to vote for them.

OP, thank you.

Of course you do. You’ve been called out on it based on your own words several times. A debate about the leader of the opposition logically includes their stance on government policy in any case

Also

That is a cheap dig to silence my deep seated reservations about the direction of the party. You can't argue with the facts, so you choose to discredit me instead.

Did you read the twitter thread I linked to? What’s your opinion on it?
Because people who ‘ask for evidence’ often do not come back and go ‘OMG that’s awful, you’re right’. @easyandy101 did, and that’s unusual.

Yes I did and it is awful but you won’t find a single post from me saying Labour isn’t antisemitic so you’re attacking the wrong target here.

You must be a quick reader, Alsohuman, to have read through 4 years' worth of Twitter threads so quickly.

Curious to hear your views on the links I posted to.

Alternatively, what is actually going on here is a rather blatant case of 'sealioning':

"Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate"."

You can't argue with the facts, so you choose to discredit me instead.

I’ve countered every single Tory argument with facts throughout this thread. You’ve discredited yourself.

@Alsohuman, your response to an obviously upset Jew posting linked to evidence of antisemitism was the deeply patronising “see you can do it.”

Do you think that’s the right approach?

@xxyzz, I asked once in response to “I’m not your Google”.

And you are actually asking me why I can't support them any longer?????????

Not me. I totally understand why people might feel they can’t support Labour any more.

OP, thank you

You seriously don't need to thank me xx I can hear in your posts how upset you are, at least by highlighting the issue on threads like this people will start to really understand properly the situation we are in. Be in no doubt that the public in general are shocked and horrified, and the normal every day person will not always be aware of the inner workings of the Labour government. Threads like this draw light to the dark corners, and everyone learns something.

I am sorry it has come to this, that we are even having this kind of conversation. I can only say it is not reflective of the bigger picture - I don't thinhk, but recognise you must have concerns in other areas too, but we won't mention those on the thread.

labour government - party

Alsohuman

Yes I did and it is awful but you won’t find a single post from me saying Labour isn’t antisemitic so you’re attacking the wrong target here.

Wait a minute - so you admit that Labour is antisemitic but want us to vote for them anyway? Why do you want an antisemitic party to win the election?

I hate that we have come to this, OP. It leaves so many people I know, like you, bereft, with no-one to vote for.

It would be horrifying for Labour to be in this state at any point but particularly now, when we face Brexit and Johnson's government, who threaten huge damage to this country (in different ways). Never have we more needed a competent, decent opposition.

Was about to say the same thing, CendrillonSings.

Alsohuman - congratulations on the astonishingly speedy reading.

Quite remarkable.

And glad you've now acknowledged that Labour IS anti-Semitic.

So I assume that in that case, you would agree with me that no-one should vote for them. As presumably you don't intend to vote for a racist party, or recommend others do so??

I'd like to add: while Labour's anti-Semitism is clearly the most extreme form of discrimination in Labour currently, it is certainly not the only one.

It's important to remember that Corbyn only campaigns for Muslims when they're the right type of Muslims. If they're not, he cares about as much for them as he does for Jews.

Let's not forget that Corbyn denied genocide in Kosovo, and opposed NATO support to end the genocide, has been entirely silent on Chinese persecution of a million Uighur Muslims, has shown no interest at all in the persecution of Palestinians when not living in Israel.

Or look at Naz Shah's horrific treatment by Labour. twitter.com/NazShahBfd/status/1186744130808041478

And of course Labour's problems with women deserves a thread of its own.

I haven’t seen anyone deny that labour contains anti-semites. Are we just to ignore the fact that the Select Committee found that the party as a whole is not more anti-Semitic than any other party? No one can deny the appalling behaviour of those who’ve been exposed as anti-semites. The question is whether it is institutionally anti-Semitic and whether Corbyn himself is an anti-Semite, which have been claimed with certainty by some on this thread but is not proven.

Meanwhile, still no comment on the hypocrisy here, or the unwillingness to condemn anyone voting for a party who have systematically attacked and abused disabled people?

I can either vote for the racist anti Islamic Tories or the anti Semitic Labour Party or the throwing women under a bus LibDem or Green parties or I can sit on my hands and not vote at all. Given I won’t do the latter, it’s not exactly easy, is it?

Anti Islamic?

So Savid Javid says @Trewser. I guess, as a Muslim, he’d know.

No, Alsohuman, that is exactly the point the OP made, and that all those of us on the left are struggling with right now.

I'm starting personally from the couldn't possibly vote Tory ever, but particularly now, can't vote Labour until control of the party has been wrested from Corbyn/Milne/McCluskey etc.

So I'm having to look glumly at what's left. And no, it's not brilliant. For the reasons you list.

So what solution do you have?

I’ve got an anti-Tory thread going here, but not many takers www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3739292-Tories-to-continue-to-run-schools-into-the-ground

Surprised people are banging on about lack of comment on Tory attacks on disabled people on a thread about Corbyn but not actually starting threads for people to discuss it.

So what solution do you have?

Think about it and weigh up what I can live with. Hopefully there will be a Raving Monster Loony candidate where I live.