Jeremy Corbyn - PM by default?

[Considermesometimes]

I am not a 'woke' labour supporter. I come from a long line of many generations of stout labour supporters. It would be unthinkable up to now in my family for anyone to vote for any other party. I would be shown the door at my gp's house for even having this conversation.

However, I am seriously seriously worried, I would go as far as to say terrified of the prospect of voting for Labour this time, and Jeremy Corbyn actually becoming Prime Minister.
I am interested to know how others are dealing with this problem.

I am worried that some of the policies such as seizing assets and homes from people, massive taxes etc. We are home owners and work very hard, it could all be jeopardised.

Forced closure of private schools in this area would be a complete and utter disaster. As it is we have to finish early on Friday afternoons, and do not have funds for every day stationary much less hundreds of extra children. What would happen to our already very full classes of 33-38 with all the extra children from the private schools? How is this even possible? And yet it seems Labour are fully committed to it when pressed on the issue.

The huge privatisation plan of utilities looks to cost around 200 billion pounds. I don't want our money spent this way! I would much prefer better schools and hospitals, and crime to be under control in this part of the country. I can't even get a GP app for my asthmatic dd at the moment. I could not care less about the Utilities or the railways etc. The LP just do not seem to understand at the moment what matters to most people.

The whole defence and nuclear issue. I don't feel we live in a particularly safe world. I like the fact we have some defences against the nut jobs in the Middle East or North Korea. The fact that other countries would not trust the UK under Corbyn to share intelligence with us, and his lack of decision making in a crisis, or even his basic understanding of deterrents is deeply disturbing.

I just don't think Corbyn is up to the job in any shape or form. Nor do most of the party.

I have thought about voting Lib Dems, but looking at the numbers that will almost certainly result in Corbyn being PM. There is almost no chance at all of Lib Dems getting 326 seats. A vote for Lib Dems is a vote for a Labour government probably propped up by the SNP who will demand another independence referendum in six months.

I am livid with the party for allowing this to happen, how is Corbyn still the leader of the party it is beyond me. How has this been allowed to happen? Chuka Umunna would have made an excellent PM, but all the best candidates are leaving the Labour party.

I don't think I can vote for anyone. That is my final conclusion, for the first time in thirty years I will not vote. What are you planning to do?

The difference is the Labour party is admitting the antisemitism and is being proactive in investigating it.

The Tories are denying the Islamaphobia issue and refusing to have it investigated.

The difference is the Labour party is admitting the antisemitism and is being proactive in investigating it.

Are you joking? The Labour Party is being investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission over their institutional antisemitism. Nothing proactive about it - they had to be dragged kicking and screaming into any kind of acknowledgement of it!

"On Friday, after Boris Johnson confirmed there would be no inquiry into Islamphobia before Christmas, she wrote on Twitter: “Yes disappointing. Yes predictable. Yes it’s true my party don’t give a — about racism within our own ranks. We are only anti-racist to score political points. Do as we say not as we do.”

www.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/09/tory-islamophobia-hancock-accused-of-trying-to-isolate-warsi

The Labour Party is being investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission over their institutional antisemitism.

You always say it as if its an indication of guilt, it isnt and I welcome the investigation.

Now go back and reread your post. You clearly are a closet tory. All your concerns are about your money and yourself. Who gives a fuck about the poor, disabled or public services? Scary corbyn might increase your taxes on your extortionate wage. Or make you sell your 5th house. Boohoo poor you . How could you ever vote for such a man? How 'terrifying' for you that you may be a little less rich.

“ This is why you have to be alert to stuff like Jewish MPs being asked if they are being funded by Israel, or references to the ‘Israel Lobby’ trying to control British politics. Or George Soros or the Rothschilds. Different names for the same old conspiracy theories.”
I agree. However, surely we should have the right to know who funds our MPs? Isn’t that what the Russian Report is all about? I am very uneasy about the funding that the CFI provides the Conservative Party because it is a lobby group the vast majority of conservative MPs belong to, it has links with Likud and the funding it provides is not transparent. Is it anti Semitic to want clarity?

Mummryrocks I can tell that you really are concerned about this but I would urge you to look more closely at the manifestos when released

Tiddletattle- dh has his own business which is our sole income. I worry about labours polices which could put small businesses out of business. He simply can't afford to pay 12 months maternity Leave and 4 weeks paternity. Will JC put up taxes? Can I trust he won't?

Small businesses are far safer under Labour than the tories. They plan to reform business rates so that they are fairer to small businesses. Local authorities are already £3bn in deficit, predicted to be £8bn in five years if nothing changes. Increased business rates is one of the few ways they can claw some of that back. Business rates have already forced many small businesses to close.

Your DH wouldn’t have to pay more maternity or paternity pay. These are statutory - the government pays for them, just as they pay for it now. It’s likely to be easier to fill a definite 12 month post than a 9 month one, and then what happens when an employee decides to stay off for 12 months anyway? This makes things more straightforward. The only issue is fathers being off work for 4 weeks instead of 2, but this could already happen under shared parental leave.

I worry larger businesses who use DHs services will leave under a labour government. I feel they are giving too much power to workers and trade unions. I worry labour is setting an environment where small/medium businesses won't want to grow and develop because if they reach a certain level or employ x number of people they will be hit by big taxes, have to put all these policies for workers into place. It's stopping people like DH striving to do better.

I don’t even know how to respond to this because it’s just based on scaremongering nonsense. Where are these companies going to go which gives them a better deal and a better public funded infrastructure, topping up of wages via tax credits etc? Large companies have a bloody good deal in the U.K., and will still have a good deal if the rates of corporation tax increased. DH and I own a business and the idea that we might not strive to have a bigger more successful company because of a marginal increase in corporation tax is just ludicrous. You honestly believe companies will be turning down work and expansion which increases their profits and makes them more money because they’ll have to pay a bit more tax on those profits? I mean sure, if you’re that resistant to paying tax, you could do that. Other companies will be more than happy to have the increased profits regardless.

My dc go to private school, not funded by us, I don't want their school shut down.

Corbyn has never said he will shut down private schools. Ever. There has been discussion of removing their charitable status so that they have to pay tax (why shouldn’t they? They’re businesses, not charities), and integrating existing private schools into the state education system. Schools won’t be randomly shut down.

I am lucky enough to be set for some inheritance, hopefully. Not a huge amount, of it's not swollen up by care home fees. I don't want it myself but want to pass it down to my children so they can afford to buy a house when they are old enough. Nothing flash but something to set them up. Dh and I wouldn't be able to do that for them ourselves. I don't want that all swollen up by inheritance tax.
When my mum died we had to pay IHT on the proceeds of her house - the value had increased to slightly over the threshold, so we had a small amount to pay. It won’t “all be swallowed up” will it? IT has thresholds, and you pay a percentage of tax on whatever is over that threshold. Labour are looking at ways to reform the IHT system, to prevent inheritance tax avoidance by the wealthiest - they don’t want to penalise those with modest estates / a family home to leave behind. The previous discussions have been around abolishing IHT and introducing a lifetime gifts tax, which would prevent the trickling of large sums of money to avoid IHT. Again, this isn’t a concern if you’re looking at a modest inheritance - the figures thrown around were £450k per person or £900k per couple, but let’s see what the manifesto says.

It's a moral dilemma for me. I hate what the tories are doing but I simply can't risk gambling DHs business

I’m saddened that you think a Labour vote is gambling his business, and can’t see that the tories have no interest whatsoever in supporting small business. Brexit is a bigger risk to his business than Labour.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-small-businesses-risk-confidence-rates-fsb-sajid-javid-budget-a9163891.html

If you hate what the tories are doing, as I do, that means that we all need to pitch in to make sure the state have sufficient funds to reverse all of these damaging policies. I’m happy to pay more tax for this.

It's a moral dilemma for me. I hate what the tories are doing but I simply can't risk gambling DHs business

Remind me again but who said 'fuck business'?

deathgrip I broadly agree with what youve said, however and integrating existing private schools into the state education system is basically shutting down private schools and is a really really stupid proposal. I think the private school issue has totally backfired for Labour and I am not expecting to see it in their manifesto, but it was a ridiculous suggestion in the first place. Vat on fees might be in there. Dds school won't close if that happens, but I will watch with interest to see how much our local comp improves because of it!

Deathgrio are you a Momentum Bot as this is an idealistic spin on a the current Labour/Left ideology.

I think we should not forget Corbyn's and McDonalds views on Venezuela they held it up as a shining example of Socialism. Those poor Venezuela people, they broke the country, the medicines stopped the country fell apart

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5OqXBdCHJDc

Tbh I'm not expecting 20 percent on fees on the next 5 years either, even if they get in. And even if by any tiny chance they did, they'll be out again in 4.

We’ve already discussed Venezuela on this thread. We are nothing like Venezuela as a country or an economy. Our economy is not almost completely reliant on a natural resource and therefore at the mercy of international price fluctuations of said resource. Less than 2% of their GDP was agricultural by the 80s. The state imports almost everything the country needs. These two things are a recipe for disaster regardless of the politics of the leadership. You cannot draw comparisons.

And it’s amusing that you’re labelling me a bot when I’ve done my utmost to back up what I’ve said and it’s been roundly ignored by the majority of posters who’ve done nothing more that repeat back Tory spin soundbytes with no substance.

Trewser you said integrating existing private schools into the state education system is basically shutting down private schools

Except it’s not, is it? Those things are two entirely different propositions. But let’s see what the manifesto says.

Deathgrio are you a Momentum Bot as this is an idealistic spin on a the current Labour/Left ideology.

It’s not an idealistic spin at all. It’s evidence based rebuttal of Tory scaremongering.

Except it’s not, is it? Those things are two entirely different propositions. But let’s see what the manifesto says

There is no actual way my dds private school could be run as it is now if it were integrated into the state sector. The fact that it is independent from government whims on education and has a strong and traditional work ethic and punishment and reward system is literally what makes it what it is. Yes, you could have the physical buildings if you wanted to pay for the upkeep of ancient buildings and lacrosse pitches (which I doubt), but the school as it exists now would be gone forever. The parents at my dds old comprehensive just would not have been able to let the teachers do their job in the way they do. Even detention is only able to be given with the consent of the parent! I doubt a large percentage of the teachers would stay either.

I doubt a large percentage of the teachers would stay either

Where would they go and what would they do?

Some of them would leave the profession altogether I expect. Some might try and stick at it and see how it goes. Hopefully all the money for new teachers would cover the shortfall.

If you've had no experience of excellent private education you cannot possibly understand how much it differs from state. I'm aware how snobby that sounds but I am afraid it is true.

Where would they go and what would they do?

Work in another field maybe. Teachers don’t have to be teachers for their entire working career - I’ve seen a number of posts on here about teachers leaving the profession for pastures new.

X post, Trewser!

shalligoagain - "Anti-semitism is an invented stick to beat Corbyn with and the super rich/media/tories won't put that stick down until the threat of him winning an election has passed."

Only an anti-Semite could say that.

Or someone who had literally not read a newspaper in the last 4 years.

Which category do you fall into?

And out of interest, is it Jews reporting anti-Semitism that you deny? Or do also go around telling women they are lying about sexism and misogyny for nefarious reasons, black people they are lying about claims they experience racism, Muslims about Islamophobia etc?

Because if it's just Jews you claim are lying about anti-Semitism to discredit Corbyn then I think we can all see exactly what that makes you.

So the job market would suddenly be flooded with hundreds of ex teachers, most of whom with zero experience of anything outside education? They sound highly employable.

Trewser private education may well differ from state, but there's good reason for that (the ££££ required to get in to there). I don't understand why we as a society would not want to start funding state schools properly. I don't understand why private schools should have charitable status.
State schools have been systematically underfunded for years under the austerity of the Tory govt.
clearly any differences between private and state will be much more acute in this scenario.
Properly funded state schools would reduce the need for the horribly unequal two tier system that we have now.

What do teachers do now when they leave?

If I was a PE teacher in private school there is no way I could do the same job at state school. Will the govt fund Greek, Latin, Classics, Art History?

The existence of private schools is not the reason why state education is underfunded.

I agree! If state schools were run like private schools and given the funding to do so they'd be amazing! But they can never, ever be run like private schools, even with a lot of money and particularly with a very left govt in charge.

Yes, they did it in Finland, but while the schools were being run on traditional private school lines they did really well. As soon as more 'modern' ideas of education started to permeate, attainment dropped significantly.

Underfunding state schools makes (those who can afford private) more likely to use them. No?