Jeremy Corbyn - PM by default?

[Considermesometimes]

I am not a 'woke' labour supporter. I come from a long line of many generations of stout labour supporters. It would be unthinkable up to now in my family for anyone to vote for any other party. I would be shown the door at my gp's house for even having this conversation.

However, I am seriously seriously worried, I would go as far as to say terrified of the prospect of voting for Labour this time, and Jeremy Corbyn actually becoming Prime Minister.
I am interested to know how others are dealing with this problem.

I am worried that some of the policies such as seizing assets and homes from people, massive taxes etc. We are home owners and work very hard, it could all be jeopardised.

Forced closure of private schools in this area would be a complete and utter disaster. As it is we have to finish early on Friday afternoons, and do not have funds for every day stationary much less hundreds of extra children. What would happen to our already very full classes of 33-38 with all the extra children from the private schools? How is this even possible? And yet it seems Labour are fully committed to it when pressed on the issue.

The huge privatisation plan of utilities looks to cost around 200 billion pounds. I don't want our money spent this way! I would much prefer better schools and hospitals, and crime to be under control in this part of the country. I can't even get a GP app for my asthmatic dd at the moment. I could not care less about the Utilities or the railways etc. The LP just do not seem to understand at the moment what matters to most people.

The whole defence and nuclear issue. I don't feel we live in a particularly safe world. I like the fact we have some defences against the nut jobs in the Middle East or North Korea. The fact that other countries would not trust the UK under Corbyn to share intelligence with us, and his lack of decision making in a crisis, or even his basic understanding of deterrents is deeply disturbing.

I just don't think Corbyn is up to the job in any shape or form. Nor do most of the party.

I have thought about voting Lib Dems, but looking at the numbers that will almost certainly result in Corbyn being PM. There is almost no chance at all of Lib Dems getting 326 seats. A vote for Lib Dems is a vote for a Labour government probably propped up by the SNP who will demand another independence referendum in six months.

I am livid with the party for allowing this to happen, how is Corbyn still the leader of the party it is beyond me. How has this been allowed to happen? Chuka Umunna would have made an excellent PM, but all the best candidates are leaving the Labour party.

I don't think I can vote for anyone. That is my final conclusion, for the first time in thirty years I will not vote. What are you planning to do?

As a long-term (former) Labour member I am horrified and disgusted by the far right's takeover of Labour - which is what Corbyn is.

Amazing. Corbyn is simultaneously a Stalinist and a far-right shill.

All of the other examples in the list are equally ridiculous and absolutely not proof of Jeremy Corbyn's supposed 'anti-semitism.'

Agreed.

Did you watch the Panorama programme about antisemitism in the Labour Party, Deathgrip?

Pitterpatterpettysteps - like I said, there are numerous other lists, I'm not your google. Here's Jonathan Freedland in the Guardian today:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/09/jews-brexit-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn

But like I said, if you want to believe, because fumdamentally you wouldn't recognise anti-Semitism if it came up and bit you on the arse, then you're not going to recognise anti-Semitism.

Basically, if you think Jews don't matter and a bit of anti-Semitism doesn't matter and Jews should just shut up for the common good, then it won't matter if I give you 100 examples, 1000, 10,000. You'll find a way to deflect, because it's inconvenient - and frankly, you don't care. It doesn't affect you, at best.

At worst, you too share these views.

Deathgrip. Love that you think Stalin was 'left wing'.

Very amusing. So not a far right dictator who murdered millions of his own people then, then, just a nice, kindly left-winger.

Give me strength.

Think of all the Labour MPs, peers and members who have quit the party citing antisemitism. All liars?

Stalin was far right; Corbyn is also scarily close to eg Trump - both share the same pro-Russia outlook, both claim to be populists, both attack the media as 'biased', both are pretty thick, both attack Jews, both attack the wrong type of Muslims (for Trump, he's pro-Saudi, for Corbyn, he's pro-Iran), both are old, white, arrogant men with a tendency to go off on one when challenged.

But you go you. Go vote for the racist Corbyn. His racism obviously floats your boat.

We don't have any proof that Corybn voted leave either do we, just actions and deeds to look back on over his life time..

"Exclusive: Rabbi Jonathan Romain tells 823 families at his shul that 'a Corbyn-led government would pose a danger to Jewish life as we know it' "

The Maidenhead synagogue minister revealed he had sent the letter to 823 families who are members of the Berkshire shul across 16 different constituencies suggesting that “a Corbyn-led government would pose a danger to Jewish life as we know it.”

Rabbi Romain – author of The Jews of England and former chair of the Movement for Reform Judaism –said he had decided to send out the letter on Wednesday evening despite receiving a negative reaction from rabbinic colleagues who had said he should not be party political.

“I should stress that the problem is not the Labour Party itself, which has a long record of fighting discrimination and prejudice, but the problem is Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn-led Labour, has at best, let antisemitism arise within its ranks, or at worst, has encouraged it.

“This has never happened under any previous Labour leader, whether under Tony Blair on the right, Neil Kinnock in the centre or Michael Foot on the left, so the finger of responsibility really does seem to point to Jeremy Corbyn.

“I am therefore suggesting we should each put aside all other considerations and vote for whichever party is most likely to defeat Labour in whatever constituency we are in - even if we would never normally vote for that party.

You may recall the ground-breaking decision of all three Jewish newspapers - The Jewish Chronicle, The Jewish News and The Jewish Telegraph - to publish exactly the same front cover on 25th July 2018: taking a united stance to suggest that a Labour government under the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn would prove “an existential threat” to British Jewry.

www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/senior-rabbi-takes-unprecedented-step-of-writing-to-urge-congregants-to-vote-tactically-against-labo-1.490891

The Nazis were the national socialists.....these are the socialists....

Nasty bastards who want to control us all and make life shit.

I'll tell you a secret, the far left and far right meet in the middle.

Which is why I DESPISE any type of extremism. Far left views fall in with hatred of Jewish people.
Shame, shame, shame!
Sorry Jewish people your not the right kind of people the Left like to champion to wear that big " look at me I'm left these are my twisted warped values. I am a good person and morally superior to you. "

What I will not have is a repeat of Germany in the 30s. Then you could argue that Germans didn't realise that Hitler actually meant all this anti-Semitism stuff.

Now we know better. We know that when someone says who they are, it's our job to listen.

And if you choose to vote for Corbyn knowing that pretty much the entire Jewish community has called Corbyn out on his anti-Semitism, then YOU are personally responsible for the outcomes. And none of this shit of, 'Oh, I didn't notice, I didn't realise' is going to wash.

You DO know. Because Jews are telling you.

And if you choose to claim that you understand anti-Semitism better than all the Jewish victims of it whose very lives depend on recognising it, then you are a fucking racist.

xyzz Sat 09-Nov-19 19:59:26
Johnson is far right; he is also scarily close to eg Trump - both share the same pro-Russia outlook, both claim to be populists, both attack the media as 'biased', both are pretty thick, both attack the poor, both attack the wrong type of Muslims, both are white, arrogant men with a tendency to go off on one when challenged.

See what I did there? Not much choice, is there?

Can you tell I'm just a bit angry about this?

POVERTY

ttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/browns-vision-to-beat-child-poverty-revealed-471657.html

Almost nine years after Labour came to power, one in five children still lives in poverty. A report says infant mortality among children with parents in routine or semi-routine occupations was double that for those of managers and professionals in 2000-02 - and says the gap has widened since Labour took office

It found that the attainment gap between younger children on free school meals and their peers has not narrowed since 1998.

"In particular low income, low socio-economic status, disability and membership of particular ethnic groups are associated with much higher risks. .

Alsohuman - I agree with you, Johnson is as bad and yes, just like Trump. I'm not aware that this thread is about Trump or that I suggested that Trump is any better, though?

So I do see what you did there.

It's called Whataboutery.

Nice try. Better try harder next time in your attempt to let the well-known racist Jeremy Corbyn off the hook though.

The income gap between rich and poor has widened to its highest level since Margaret Thatcher was in office, official figures show.

The findings are bound to cause embarrassment to the Government, which announced plans yesterday to alleviate poverty among Britain's poorest communities.

Britain's highest earners enjoyed their biggest share of the national-income cake since inequality peaked in 1988. The recent increase in inequality followed several years in the 1990s in which the earnings gap narrowed.

The figures fuelled the growing criticism by Labour MPs of the Government's record in relieving poverty in the party's traditional heartlands.

Until now, the Government has cited income figures which ended in 1997 when the Tories lost power. Privately, ministers are nervous that other damaging poverty figures will be published before the general election, and that it will take time for the impact of their anti-poverty measures to show up in the statistics.

Tony Blair's claims to have extended "social justice" were undermined last night by official figures showing the gap between rich and poor has widened by £90 a week since Labour came to power.

A report by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) also showed that Labour has failed to narrow the gap in achievement levels between parents from working- and middle-class families.

Most voters see Johnson as liberal person actually, as in true liberal not Jo swinsons brand of ..lets overturn and stop a democratic vote and be tyrannical....type of liberal..

I’ve already posted this @GenuineQuestions.

cpag.org.uk/child-poverty/child-poverty-facts-and-figuresThe

This is the relevant part

Child poverty reduced dramatically between 1998 and 2012 when 800,000 children were lifted out of poverty

despite many requests, most can’t even begin to quantify why they feel (Labour would be even worse)

I wouldn't quite say that, Deathgrip. You might not like the reasons PPs have given - you might even think they're a load of codswallop - but that doesn't mean they've not given them

FWIW I'm not sure about the alleged massive effect of the right wing media either. Certainly there are some who'll believe anything they read in the Guardian/Mail/whatever, but IME most have more sense than that

Maybe I mix with the wrong people ... or maybe it's just that I don't believe everyone who disagrees with me is an ignoramus

@Puzzledandpissedoff, what about the woman on Panorama this week who likes Johnson because he lies?

Xxyzz actually there are many far left beliefs (the cult) that follow why they dislike the Jewish community.
They call themselves zionists to wriggle out of it.

Love that you think Stalin was 'left wing'. Very amusing. So not a far right dictator who murdered millions of his own people then, then, just a nice, kindly left-winger.

What’s amusing is that you don’t understand that far-left is as bad as far-right (neither of which Corbyn is, by the way) but they’re based on different ideologies. Being left wing doesn’t always mean kindly.

He’s also been called a Leninist, Marxist, far-left, extreme-left on this thread. And now far-right too, “known racist” and you’re invoking Nazi Germany.

What a load of absolute shit.

The Nazis were the national socialists.....these are the socialists....

National Socialism has bugger all to do with Socialism and you’re intelligent enough to know this, so I have to question your intent.

I’m angry too. I’m angry that this country has been plunged into an austerity that has killed more than 100,000 people directly due to health and social care cuts. I’m angry that children and pensioners in poverty is rising by the hundreds of thousands each year. I’m angry that there are thousands of disabled children with EHCPs and no school places. I’m angry that we are seeing an increase in people dying from malnutrition.

So yeah, let’s talk about whataboutery shall we?

And you’re wrong puzzled. The vast majority of people here cannot quantify what they dislike about Corbyn without referencing proven lies, unproven allegations and tabloid soundbytes. I’m not even a Corbynite, I don’t believe he’s the messiah.

I do know that I’ve seen too many vulnerable people forced into unspeakable poverty and hardship for too fucking long and that no one seems to give a shit.

Not a load of shit at all death
I imagine it's very confusing for someone to experience all this anti sematism coming from far left labour?
Because we've had it drummed into us it's the sole preserve of the far right and Hitler... Socialists don't like it when Hitlers party is called by its true name, national.. Socialists..

It is confusing.

But as yet another rabbi is calling out, up thread, this hasn't been an issue under anyone else in labour except... Corybn.
Dear leader corbyn, and all his amazing wonderful principles who wants to make like better not the few... The many... (as long as your the right kind of many)...

I'll tell you a secret, the far left and far right meet in the middle ... Which is why I DESPISE any type of extremism

Thre's nothing secret about that, GenuineQuestions - at least, not to those who care to look - and I couldn't agree more with you about extremism

what about the woman on Panorama this week who likes Johnson because he lies?

I must admit I missed Panorama this week, but can't say I'm surprised; a minority of deranged will ever be among us

Corbyn has been fighting against racism since the 70s. In 1977, he famously joined an anti-nazi demo to stop the NF marching through Wood Green. Why on earth would he have done this if he was really an anti-Semite?

Anti-semitism is an invented stick to beat Corbyn with and the super rich/media/tories won't put that stick down until the threat of him winning an election has passed.

I imagine it's very confusing for someone to experience all this anti sematism coming from far left labour?
Because we've had it drummed into us it's the sole preserve of the far right and Hitler... Socialists don't like it when Hitlers party is called by its true name, national.. Socialists..

Nope. Corbyn is not far left, neither is Labour. Far-Left politics is as dangerous as far-right politics, and racism of all kinds is present in every extreme political ideology.

You can call the Nazis national socialists as much as you like, that’s the translation of their name. That doesn’t mean it has anything to do with socialism. I suggest you educate yourself on this before repeating the same error. I’ll even link an explanation for you:
www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists

Socialists in the third reich - members of the Social Democratic Party, as well as the German communist party - were sent to concentration camps too.