Jeremy Corbyn - PM by default?

[Considermesometimes]

I am not a 'woke' labour supporter. I come from a long line of many generations of stout labour supporters. It would be unthinkable up to now in my family for anyone to vote for any other party. I would be shown the door at my gp's house for even having this conversation.

However, I am seriously seriously worried, I would go as far as to say terrified of the prospect of voting for Labour this time, and Jeremy Corbyn actually becoming Prime Minister.
I am interested to know how others are dealing with this problem.

I am worried that some of the policies such as seizing assets and homes from people, massive taxes etc. We are home owners and work very hard, it could all be jeopardised.

Forced closure of private schools in this area would be a complete and utter disaster. As it is we have to finish early on Friday afternoons, and do not have funds for every day stationary much less hundreds of extra children. What would happen to our already very full classes of 33-38 with all the extra children from the private schools? How is this even possible? And yet it seems Labour are fully committed to it when pressed on the issue.

The huge privatisation plan of utilities looks to cost around 200 billion pounds. I don't want our money spent this way! I would much prefer better schools and hospitals, and crime to be under control in this part of the country. I can't even get a GP app for my asthmatic dd at the moment. I could not care less about the Utilities or the railways etc. The LP just do not seem to understand at the moment what matters to most people.

The whole defence and nuclear issue. I don't feel we live in a particularly safe world. I like the fact we have some defences against the nut jobs in the Middle East or North Korea. The fact that other countries would not trust the UK under Corbyn to share intelligence with us, and his lack of decision making in a crisis, or even his basic understanding of deterrents is deeply disturbing.

I just don't think Corbyn is up to the job in any shape or form. Nor do most of the party.

I have thought about voting Lib Dems, but looking at the numbers that will almost certainly result in Corbyn being PM. There is almost no chance at all of Lib Dems getting 326 seats. A vote for Lib Dems is a vote for a Labour government probably propped up by the SNP who will demand another independence referendum in six months.

I am livid with the party for allowing this to happen, how is Corbyn still the leader of the party it is beyond me. How has this been allowed to happen? Chuka Umunna would have made an excellent PM, but all the best candidates are leaving the Labour party.

I don't think I can vote for anyone. That is my final conclusion, for the first time in thirty years I will not vote. What are you planning to do?

It’s also worth pointing out that, because of the inflated costs of private healthcare, the American government has to spend more money on healthcare than we do. They pay more per capita and more as a percentage of GDP, and they still have a system where people are dying for lack of insulin, where people can’t afford or get health insurance, where insurance companies refuse to pay for treatments, or where deductibles leave even insured people bankrupt and homeless.

Here’s the stats: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42950587

A US style healthcare system would not save us money or improve our health service. So who is benefitting is we continue to privatise NHS services? Not the economy and not public, that’s for sure.

Are there any countries who don't have any private companies involved with their health service?

The Labour party doesn't get as much coverage as the tories when there isnt a GE because they aren't actually in power

I’m sorry but are you actually reading what I’m saying, or what I’m linking to? It’s not about the proportion of coverage, it’s about the content.

You said it’s bullshit that they’re misrepresented. I showed analysis demonstrating that it’s not bullshit.

Can you back up what you’re saying?

I don't really understand what you are saying tbh. Are you saying when I listen to a Labour politician on R4 it's been manipulated to make the Conservative politician sound better? Because that's not what I'm hearing.

You are not voting for a PM, you are voting for an MP. As we’ve seen in this last government, parliament is sovereign and can stop the excesses of one individual - provided they’re not all nuts that is.

So you don’t want to vote Lib Dem as it might end up with Corbyn as PM, but actually, that could soften the effect of any ‘extreme’ policies of one party.

I think all three candidates for PM from the main parties are not what I’d chose, but I take heart that there’s sensible people from each party in parliament. I have to admit, most of the tories I respected have stood down this time though.

If you want to read about other country’s healthcare systems, you can find good information here
international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/

In this era, there probably aren’t any countries now where there’s no private interest in healthcare. Which is a terrible shame because, as I pointed out above, there is literally no way to privatise health services without it either negatively impacting the services provided or costing the government more. If you’re not opposed to the privatisation of some or all of the NHS, I would like to understand what you think the benefits are?

Before Obamacare came in in the US (even as watered down and ineffective as it was), almost half of ER visits were people using the service to replace primary care because they had no other option.

I think private healthcare companies are often very driven to innovate, which is very important in healthcare.

I don't really understand what you are saying tbh. Are you saying when I listen to a Labour politician on R4 it's been manipulated to make the Conservative politician sound better? Because that's not what I'm hearing.

Did you read what I’m saying, or the analysis I posted?

I’m saying that the media representation is biased - so you’re hearing less from those labour politicians, and you’re hearing it within a context that’s biased against them, in an environment where factually inaccurate and partisan-biased media stories and commentary are printed and shared on a daily basis. If all media coverage were politicians talking then there’d be less opportunity for bias, but that’s a tiny fraction of coverage.

Again, you’re not really addressing anything I’m saying.

Thanks for that link deathgrip, interesting reading

so you’re hearing less from those labour politicians

But as I said, I would expect to hear less from a party not in power.

just ask because I earn under 85k and have used the state school system and the NHS multiple times over the last 15 years and it's all gone pretty well.

My experience of the NHS has been the reverse. Eighteen years ago my dad had a cataract operation performed when he could still see well enough to drive, followed by the second three months later.

In March I paid for my cataract surgery because, despite being unable to drive safely, mine weren’t deemed bad enough and my CCG will only fund one eye. There are people quite literally going blind now because there’s no funding for one of the cheapest and quickest surgeries available.

It’s pretty telling that the November NHS performance figures aren’t being released until 13 December.

I think private healthcare companies are often very driven to innovate, which is very important in healthcare.

Evidence of this?
Evidence of how it benefits patients?

Pharmaceutical companies certainly innovate and develop new treatments that save lives. The NHS, purchasing drugs for an entire country, has great negotiating power to access them - do you know how much more America pays for the same drugs we do? Did you see the recent Dispatches about Johnson’s meetings with US pharmaceutical companies, and their desire to increase their profits from the NHS by negotiating trade deals that prevent the prescribing of generics? It was estimated that the changes being discussed would cost the NHS more than £25bn. You can read a summary here:
www.channel4.com/press/news/trumps-plan-nhs-channel-4-dispatches

Private companies developing new treatments and procedures is one thing. Where’s the evidence that privatising healthcare provision leads to innovation and an improvement in service? Any at all?

But cataract surgery is one of the most common surgeries?! That sounds really unusual.

the Commonwealth Fund is a US lobbying group whose raison d'etre is to increase healthcare access - it's hardly unbiased.

The link isn’t a commentary - it’s a summary of healthcare systems by country, backed up by government statistics from each country. Which part of it is inaccurate?

Research it @Trewser or would you like me to do it for you?

It’s a complete nonsense to say private health innovates, it uses NHS doctors carrying out the same procedures. My cataract aftercare was carried out in an NHS eye clinic during my surgeon’s lunch break.

There you go @Trewser and it’s from that bastion of Tory support, The Telegraph.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/21/patients-wait-up-to-15-months-for-cataract-ops-in-devastating-lo/

Thank goodness for the people on this thread who aren't blind Daily Mail and Telegraph readers

It's a pity you didn't balance that by including Guardian and Mirror readers, but it makes a fair point about bias; so does "Deathgrip"'s remark about the illusion of being well-informed without considering the information's source

Personally I've always considered the media to a be a "hang on, what's this about?" thing - an opportunity, if you like, to go and look for more info. Sometimes it turns out they've made a fair stab at reporting the truth, sometimes it's a whole load of spin and sometimes the whole thing's made up (though with enough weasel words to cover themselves)

The overall point is that it's very hard to get all the info needed from one source, doubly so when the source has a vested interest in whatever-it-is

My local hospital has a “private wing” - they’ve sold off a floor, impacting bed and theatre availability for NHS patients, so that those who can afford it can skip the queue, while everyone else waits longer. Same doctors, same nurses, same building.

A local GP practice has set up a private GP surgery. You can pay for a 20 or 40 minute appointment, with the same GPs as NHS patients, while the GPs have now gone part time in the NHS. Meanwhile NHS patients in the practice are waiting 3+ weeks for an appointment.

It’s absolutely ridiculous to make statements like this without quantifying them, and while the tories are actually fucking up our schools by slashing funding and particularly fucking over disabled children.

I never said that the Tories were doing a good job with schools. Search me on the education sections if you want to see exactly what I think of it.

There are serious problems with school funding, structures, teacher recruitment and retention.

The exam system and curriculum are starting to settle down.

Labour plan to come in and scrap Ofsted and SATs, so basically throw a bomb under accountability and inspection. This will cause massive disruption and tbh I can’t see it doing anything apart from cause school standards to fall (I can certainly provide more detail but I don’t think people are interested in fine educational detail).

Education is in crisis and needs stability. The last thing it needs is a new party coming in, chucking the old party’s stuff out of the window and stamping over the current set-up. It needs thoughtful and considered amendments, not an ideological sledgehammer.

You can vote for who you like without saying, the ballot box is secret. I'll vote Tory, despite being a Lib Dem by nature because I don't want Corbyn in number 10.

That's shit. Glad you got it done in the end.

@Trewser, I got it done because I paid £5k - to be able to see. Eighteen years ago my dad paid nothing at an earlier stage. What about the numerous people who haven’t got £5k to spare?

Its a good example of the postcode lottery of the NHS. I know near me its fairly routine and waiting time a few weeks.

It’s a worry, labour are crap and poorly led just now.

But then look what Tory policies have done in what they keep telling us is one of the richest countries in the world. They’ve been in power nearly 10 years, who else can be held to blame for issues like schools and the health service struggling?