Help please - difficult issue around child access and terminal illness

[Unhappytraveler]

Hoping someone might be able to help with the following...not really a AIBU but have posted for traffic:

I'm going to have to be slightly vague about the info as it is a very sad and sensitive situation but the crux of it is that someone close to me (let's call them A) has in the last few days been given a terminal cancer diagnosis. 3-6 months was suggested but they aren't doing too well and sadly we think it might be a lot less than that. There is no possibility of a cure and they have chosen not to have any treatment which might give them a few more months but cause more pain etc.

A has a grandchild who they haven't seen for several years due to the fact that As child B ( the non resident parent/ NRP) was under criminal investigation - the offence did not relate to the child but the child's (resident) parent said they would no longer agree to visitation or contact with nrp or their family, including A. Prior to that B had 40/60 access.

B decided (and this isn't intended to be a debate about rights and wrongs of that decision) to step away temporarily a couple of years ago rather than fight for contact but with every intention of re establishing contact in the near future...obviously the current unexpected situation now means that there is some urgency to do so for As sake.

At the time B was told they could go to court or that social services would be prepared to try and mediate to facilitate contact. SS advised that from a child protection perspective they had no concerns over access.

So what I'm trying to help the family with is what's the quickest way to achieve some contact with the child for A whilst they are still with us. Clearly B could apply to court but I'm anticipating that's a process that could take a while especially if the other parent refuses to engage ( which is a possibility) and time is not on As side.

Is there any way social services could assist? Given that previously the family were advised they might (but 2 or so years on and with the current traumatic situation no one can remember who to contact)

**overshadowed

I am sorry this is happening to your family and I think everyone is trying to do something, anything to make things a bit better and have latched onto this.

There's no GP rights like you've said and I highly doubt a judge would allow access after no real attempt at contact have been made for past few years.

Also will B disappear into the sunset again after his parent passes away, leaving the child to deal with his abandonment all over again on top of bereavement?

And if you're attempting contact creates a full mental breakdown for the child with self harm, will you still feel justified then?

Because without knowing the DC perspective that could be exactly what you're risking

THere are things you could do - but you have to respect the RP and teh child as well...you sound quite dismissive of the reasons why the family broke up and it is highly unlikely you know the full story ...

whatever you do do not put the onus on an 11/12 year old to make any decisions - they are far too young to have the emotional resiliance/understanding of teh situation and consequences it is their parents job how/what to disclose with them.

you could send a card/letter to the RP on A behalf - saying A would like some contact with the grandchild but is very unwell with a short time left - if they reply they do if they don't they don't.... as is often in abusive situations you may well be seen as a 'flying monkey' and they may well have been advised to avoid all forms of contact/interaction to protect themselves/children

you could scribe for A some messages/letters /family history , photo book or something that can be sent to the RP in the future...

it can be seen that you are trying to help A and it is very upsetting to have that sort of diagnosis but you do not seem to be recognising the situation may not be resolvable......or in the childs best interests...

I didnt know about go to any of my grand parents funerals or know about their deaths straight away - family splits and distance mainly - has not made a jot of difference to my life, so I think you are possibly over inflating the impact on the DGC as well.....

Social services are not likely to be interested either - it is not their role to act as intermediaries -

I think the most that could be done would be for someone (not B) to write a letter to the NRP on A's behalf explaining the situation and asking for a visit or phone contact. That letter should stipulate that at no time will B be allowed to see the child IF the NRP agrees to contact. Offer someone (you?) to act as intermediary if the NRP has questions or wishes to set up a visit.

Then let it go.

Setting aside whether or not this is a good idea - your best hope is to get in touch with the RP and ask them as politely and nicely as possible. You might be able to find them on social media if you don't have an up to date phone number
I don't think SS will intervene and I suspect court action will take too long, with no guarantee of success

SS will not become involved in this. It is matter to be sorted out by the family. I can only suggest that someone who knows the mother can contact her and let her know what is happening with A and ask if she would allow the GC to meet with A but only if the GC wants to. If this cannot happen I would suggest that A writes a letter to her GC which can be given to them at some point in the future, probably when they are an adult.

"Hey child, I didn't care enough to see you for over two years but now my DF is dying, I need to see you urgently."

Why would you want to bring a child into such a distressing situation? All I can see is the self centred need of the adults. Yes it’s awful to have that diagnosis but it doesn’t justify creating grief and confusion into a child’s life.

What support etc has been put in place for A? Is there any organisations they have been put in touch with who could act as an intermediary? That would be a better option than ss, they could not force the rp to allow contact which is I think what you are hoping for.

Pressed send too quickly.

How do you think the child will feel when they realise the only reason their dad decided to get in contact after over 2 years was because his DF was dying and NOT because he actually wanted to see the child?

Or, alternatively- “Hey child, this man who is your grandparent is dying. I want to give you the opportunity to see him if you want to”

Because if the child discovers later in life that they could have seen him before he dies and was not given the choice it could be very hurtful indeed.

I am very sorry to hear about your friend. It sounds like a very upsetting situation for you all.

From what you've said here it sounds as though people are latching on to this as something to make a terrible situation better. That's understandable, but objectively (and without knowing the full story) it sounds terribly unfair to the child.

And yes, of course there is a chance that the child will be very upset if A dies and they weren't able to see them. But it's an upsetting situation, and removing that one potential upset risks creating/exacerbating an awful lot of other ones.

My children are 11 and 12. I would feel that the best way I could protect them from further harm in this less-than-ideal situation would be to keep them away. Sorry.

Very wrong to have no contact with the child for over two years and then expect them to pop up on demand. This is entirely down to B's actions.

I'm assuming you are B's partner because you seem to think this is a good idea.

I'm not sure a 12 YO would be able to really make this decision- on one hand they might be worried about disappointing their mum if they accept to see their GP, rightly or wrongly.

They might be angry at B.

They might be angry at A.

Etc etc

I’m very sorry that all this has happened in the last week, finding out someone is terminal so soon is upsetting for you, but you are misplacing your need to do something to fix this.

Please do not email the child or write to them, that will get you blocked. As others have said, write a factual letter to the RP and send it recorded delivery or hand delivery it so you know it’s received.

There was obviously something big enough and serious enough with the criminal investigation that B stepped away as he knew he didn’t have a leg to stand on. If you do write say A would like to see them, but please know how much you could damage this child giving them a solo memory of a relative so I’ll you say can’t write a letter or see a solicitor.

I appreciate that the MN trope is that anyone who doesn't have 50/50 contact is a POS, and that includes extended family and the RP gets to make all decisions irrespective of the child's wishes etc. But not all situation s fit the mould. And if we cut the hyperbole someone is dying here, very unexpectedly and well before their time.

The point of me posting wasn't a debate on rights or wrongs. It was to find out how we can ensure this info gets to RP and we get an actual response rather than no response. And ideally that child is made aware and gets to choose, even if that choice is I'd like to send A a letter or message but not to see them. A would entirely respect that.

I live nowhere near the RP so it's not easy to call round, and tbh I would not be willing to drop by on spec because not knowing when RP works (their job is 7 days, shifts etc) there is no guarantee they would be home and it might be child was there on their own (and I completely agree I wouldn't want to speak to child directly).

I could put a letter through the door but again I would be reluctant to do so in case child saw me - as they know me and would remember me.

If SS is unlikely to be of help we will have to seek legal advice. And try to get a letter across in the meantime special delivery.

All you can do is write to the RP parent as suggested above. Tell A you have done so, thus respecting their final wishes as best you can, make it clear to RP that B won't be present and that RP can accompany the child to visit A, if the child wishes. As they haven't been in touch, acknowledged any gifts for two years etc etc I'd say you're on pretty shaky ground but hey it's worth a shot. At least you will know you/they did all you could.

HOWEVER your focus in this situation is skewed and I find it worrying that you view the child in the way you do. Your focus seems to be on 'what is best for the dying person' not 'what is best for this child' and no matter how much you deny this to be the case, I am not convinced. You also minimise the criminal behaviour and the fact that B has not been in touch with their child for TWO AND A HALF YEARS. Try and sweep that under the rug all you like but the facts speak for themselves, and speak plainly. Can you honestly not understand at least a little why the child's main carer and resident parent does not want their kid to be involved with any of you - after all that? Because I can, and I'm a complete stranger!

Putting aside the rights or wrongs of doing this, social services would have no role. They facilitate contacts if a child is in care and where there are child protection concerns. No way would they take any role here

I also don't think there is anything that can be done legally either.

It sounds a very selfish thing, to be honest.

It's not fair on the child at all.

I agree that the Registered Mail letter with a typed address is the way forward. Calmly explain the current situation, perhaps make assurances that B will not be present if that's a concern for the mother. But in the end of it, it must have been pretty serious for the mother to cut contact that severely and B to have not fought it, it'll therefore be the mother's decision and her decision needs to be respected.

You bring the courts into this and B will likely never manage to re-establish a relationship with his child.

If SS are not involved with this child, then they aren't involved. You can't just drag them in.

Just imagine- your child is happily getting on with life, recovering after a difficult situation a few years ago. Suddenly someone wants to reintroduce a grandparent because they are going to die shortly after.

How would you explain that to your child? "Remember Grandad? Well he's going to die soon, so let's go and see him while we can".

Really?

I think what you’re doing is potentially very damaging for the child and on that basis you should weigh the rights of the child against the “rights” of A and make your decision accordingly.

Perhaps the RP has made it hell for B to have contact. It happens, I’m not stupid. But B didn’t fight. They walked away. Do you have ANY idea the lasting damage that sort of action has on a child?

For heaven's sake, stop trying to force this. It reeks of control.

The terminally ill person might prepare letters (which can be dictated. Perhaps you could do that instead of trying to work out ways to push people around) for the child after the terminally ill person's death. Videos, recorded messages. Sorting out a keepsake to buy specially or from the grandparent's own things. So that the child knows the grandparent cared.

A letter could be sent in advance, to the resident parent, explaining the situation and that eventually messages/keepsake will be posted to the parent, to be passed to the child if the parent sees fit. Mentioning that the grandparent would love to see the child soon, if they think that appropriate.

Then back the fuck off.