Help please - difficult issue around child access and terminal illness

[Unhappytraveler]

Hoping someone might be able to help with the following...not really a AIBU but have posted for traffic:

I'm going to have to be slightly vague about the info as it is a very sad and sensitive situation but the crux of it is that someone close to me (let's call them A) has in the last few days been given a terminal cancer diagnosis. 3-6 months was suggested but they aren't doing too well and sadly we think it might be a lot less than that. There is no possibility of a cure and they have chosen not to have any treatment which might give them a few more months but cause more pain etc.

A has a grandchild who they haven't seen for several years due to the fact that As child B ( the non resident parent/ NRP) was under criminal investigation - the offence did not relate to the child but the child's (resident) parent said they would no longer agree to visitation or contact with nrp or their family, including A. Prior to that B had 40/60 access.

B decided (and this isn't intended to be a debate about rights and wrongs of that decision) to step away temporarily a couple of years ago rather than fight for contact but with every intention of re establishing contact in the near future...obviously the current unexpected situation now means that there is some urgency to do so for As sake.

At the time B was told they could go to court or that social services would be prepared to try and mediate to facilitate contact. SS advised that from a child protection perspective they had no concerns over access.

So what I'm trying to help the family with is what's the quickest way to achieve some contact with the child for A whilst they are still with us. Clearly B could apply to court but I'm anticipating that's a process that could take a while especially if the other parent refuses to engage ( which is a possibility) and time is not on As side.

Is there any way social services could assist? Given that previously the family were advised they might (but 2 or so years on and with the current traumatic situation no one can remember who to contact)

The best way to expedite things is for A to write to the mother themselves explaining things in a very amiable and low key way gently asking for some contact at whatever level is thought appropriate.

The only way to get contact with a child with whom one does not live is by agreement or with a Court order. Social services do not have the power to compel a mother to offer contact she is unwilling to offer.

If contacting the Mother does not work then A and B could go together to see a specialist family law solicitor. Court hearings can be expedited. Though these circumstances would not necessarily warrant it. There is no guarantee at all a judge would order contact. I know you don’t want opinions on whether it is a good idea. But ultimately a judge would need to be persuaded it is in the best interests of the child - their welfare is paramount. From what you have said this might not be easy to show.

It is very sad for A.

I have been put in this position as a parent. Myself and DH had very limited contact with his parents for many years. They had seen our dd1 but had little interest in dd2 because she was a sick child and hard work. In addition to other issues, we took the view that they could not cherry pick the children and they came as sisters.

Many years later f-in-law has terminal cancer and was in a hospice. I had conversations with the family but they then asked my dh if dd1 could visit him one final time. I felt very conflicted as did DH. But although guilt played a big factor, we realised it would be overwhelming for our still young dd. We took the view that they had never asked to see her in years and did not even mention dd2 so declined. It was the right thing because we put dd first.

You mention court proceedings. Those of us who have been through them know how damaging they are and there are absolutely no winners. It is seen as the right of the child to see family members not the right of the family member to see the child.

Oh behave, I’ve had two people in my family die of cancer this year, thank you very much. No child should be exposed to a situation where the person could die right in front of them, no child needs to hear that horrific death rattle.

Even more so when it’s people that haven’t been arsed with them for years.

B wasn’t convicted or jailed, so what the fucks he been doing all this time? Without the diagnosis none of them would be seeking contact, so yes that makes them selfish.

And yes putting this on a child’s shoulders IS abusive.

God forbid one of your family gets a cancer diagnosis. This is a horrific situation which many of you clearly have no understanding of

I'm not speaking for anyone else, and I don't wish to disclose why, but I know exactly what it is like to take teens through the stages of fraught family relationships and their relatives dying. Why would you think you are somehow unique?

You as a family are all in shock, all very hyped up and have a need to 'do something', make everything from the past 'alright'. This is very common with terminal diagnoses, actually but it doesn't mean you get to impose your wishes on 11/12 year old as a result. Only with the full support and understanding from the resident parent who will be their support in the future to deal with you all should anything go ahead.

This post has made me quite cross, probably unreasonably so.

Appreciate the insight Bertrand :) I've got very little experience of twelve year olds. Looking back at myself at that age I would probably reject an advance after what felt like several years of rejection/not caring. It's a tough thing.

Let's be grateful none of you are judges so actually it won't be up to you, assuming we get no reply from RP which seems likely.

Thanks to the couple of posters who actually have some empathy for everyone in the situation and can conceive of a situation where a child might want at least to know a loved grandparent was ill and have a chance to communicate in some way.

God forbid one of your family gets a cancer diagnosis. This is a horrific situation which many of you clearly have no understanding of.

^
I was barely 22 when my mum died of pancreatic cancer.
How dare you make such rich claims to people you do not know.
Involving a child in this situation is cruel.

Lots of people agree with that. You don’t have to go through someone you love passing away to this to realise that it’s not the right thing to do.

It’s hard to process as an adult. Never mind an 11/12 year old.

YABU. I appreciate its a very painful and raw situation for your family but honestly, it’s not putting the child at the heart of what is best. You are too wrapped up in the grief of such an upsetting diagnosis to see that the child isn’t being prioritised.

Sending a legal letter will alienate them further. A polite, recorded delivery letter to the RP is the best way to ask but not expect.

Well jellybeans this isn't cancer top trumps but my mother died of metastasized cancer when I was 21. She was diagnosed the day before she died.

I don't see the situation with A as cruel. It's not just because I know the people involved either.

I said in my OP that B's intention was always to seek to resume contact. They were intending to apply to court in the next 12 months or so by which time the child would be in their teens and B was advised the child's wishes on contact would be given precedence. The current situation was not intended to be permanent. And indeed until days ago A thought they had, god willing, many more years ahead.

Why did he decide to "step away" and what is the recent for seeking legal advice over the next 12 months? How was this in the child's best interest?

You think no-one on here has dealt with a similar diagnosis?! It's the child that is the victim here!

Seriously, send the RP a letter first, don’t send it from the fucking solicitor! Talk about going in heavy handed, do you really think the threat of legal action or from a solicitor would endear them to wanting to see you?

I can tell you right now that this is a horrible idea. Horrible AND selfish.

Due to their making some horrendous, and occasionally harmful, choices (though none requiring criminal investigation) I am estranged from MY parents. As such they were not allowed to continue a relationship with my DD.

If they tried to contact her (11) by bypassing me, to say “hi, I’m dying and your mumwouldnt let me see you” I’d go ballistic. How. Dare. They.

What is the child supposed to do/feel? Now they are upset, confused, possibly angry that they were put in that position by an absent father who put other people’s feelings/ wants over their feelings/needs.

How does that affect the safe, secure family life mum has given her child while dad takes a “temporary” break from parenting (paying CS is a bare minimum , hardly parenting).

A and B had years to resolve this, step up and do the right thing. Didn’t happen....until now... because THEY want contact.

Don’t blame the parent doing the hard graft of actually parenting for the state of the relationship. If A gets their wish mum has to do all the counselling and explaining things and dealing with emotional upheavals etc. Dad will likely be too distraught to be a parent and need a couple more years of temporarily stepping back?

This is a horrible situation made worse by adults putting their WANTS over a minor child’s NEEDS. This must never be allowed to turn up in conversation in later years as “A died and your mum wouldn’t let them see you” . Sounds like mum has good reasons.
Awful to put so much on the shoulders of a young child. Awful.

And, FWIW, my estranged mother passed away. My DD knew her but also knew we didn’t see her because of “bad choices”. Last time she asked me about her gran I explained she had passed away. Dd was fine, no issues. She carried on as normal. It wasn’t an issue because we didn’t make it an issue.

As for cancer, you’re vile to wish it on others. It runs rampant in my family, my mother may well have died of it. I’ve lost friends to it.

I hope that poor child is not dragged into this by you or any other selfish adult.

Well it is according to you OP because you claim no one else understands and that everyone else must not have gone through it because they don’t agree with you.

You’ve just said yourself/ your mum died a day after diagnosis. So why on earth would you involve a child when your relative could literally die before the child got to see them? And why on earth would you want a child to be involved in seeing this?

Also... when someone dies of cancer isn’t it always metastasized?

It’s the spread that kills you.

Actually you don’t know OP that none of the people responding on here are judges. Much of the advice you have been given is from those (myself included) with extensive knowledge of how the Court system works as regards family law.

This is - as I said - a desperately sad situation for A. But the court is concerned only with the welfare of the child. Consideration of that will have to include many factors. Not least of which is the child’s own situation at the present time (which nothing is known about) and their wishes and feelings.

A very tactful letter direct from A to the Mother remains my view of what is likely to work best. No threats to see a solicitor or anything like that. Very conciliatory and polite. After that A and B can consult a solicitor if there is no progress and they still want to.

After so much time, contact should be resumed slowly, on the child's terms, adding the pressure of dying GP to the mix wouldn't work.

Not sure whether it's that great for the child to have contact with B at all, but there's so many factors to that it's impossible to say really.

Also... cancer top trumps?

It’s not a game op. People die, in awful circumstances.

It’s sick to joke about it.

Always intending to seek to resume contact is another way of saying a dead beat dad who didn't want to put his hands in his pocket but now feels obligated to do so because his mum is dying. Who's to say this child won't be picked up and dropped again once this person has died. My son saw my aunt deteriorate through cancer and it was not pleasant. He was close to her so I had to let him say good bye however had she not played a major part in his entire life I would not have let her walk back in. And I know this situation from experience because my biological father used that same excuse of intending to resume contact with me. Yes he did try just before his father passed away but I didn't know them and after a number of years neither does the child in question know your friend. Why let this child get close to a person to watch them die. Write to her or record a video for when she's older but this is wrong on so many levels. It's using this person's medical condition to brush under the carpet the fathers lack of action in the hope the child stays around after. It's not a quick fix and it's the wrong way to deal with it.

How did B "stepping away" mean that contact with A was lost?

So you want A to be able V to love bomb an 11 year old knowing they're going to die bc and leave dc dealing with those emotions. I'd write a letter for dc from A to have after A has died letting dc know A thought about dc often and she is loved. More than that will not benefit the dc.

I am very sorry for the diagnosis - it must be very hard to come to terms with.

However, having fairly recently see someone die of cancer there is no way I would be letting my 12 year old see them in the last couple of weeks of their life. Mainly because it can be a horrid way to die, personalities can change towards the end of life and personally if I was the grandparent I would want them to remember me as I was when they last saw me.

Agree with others, could the person maybe record a message or dictate a letter to be sent to the grandchild as something for the child to remember the grandparent by and to let the child know they were loved and not forgotten.