Do you ever wonder why people don't have children

[Moominfan]

I'll just get my hard hat ready. I never ever say or indicate this out-loud hence why I'm posting on a online Internet forum. But if I come across someone of a certain age, I wonder what the reasons are. I was adamant at one in my life I'd never have kids and I know someone people never change their minds. Not everyone wants children, never happened for them ect. List goes on. It just crosses my mind and wonder if anyone else ever shared this thought.

Threads like this always seem to attract those parents who think that we are some kind of underclass of human. Anyway, I've told my story many times on here and have had lots of lovely comments from people, so happy to share again.

I married very young and having children was seen as the next step after graduating from Uni and getting a career established. My husband was a primary school teacher and wanted a large family. I loved him and thought that sounded a nice thing to have. So we decided to TTC. I won't bite you with the details, but 10 years of increasing desperation, 4 rounds of IVF and 4 miscarriages later still no child. Eventually our consultant told us that it was probably time to give up. We had looked into adoption and, because we were a mixed race couple we were told that we were what they were looking for - but my husband's long standing depression counted against us and we were rejected.

He killed himself and I spent the next decade nearly grieving him and our family.

Only in the last few years have I actually come to terms with having no children and, strangely to a lot of people, being happy and somewhat relieved that I didn't have them. I was sold a dream and didn't really ever sit down and think about what I wanted, and when I did I felt very strongly that actually I probably wouldn't have wanted children if it hadn't been for my husband's desperation.

I wonder if parents ever hear what they are saying😂

All different parents
Me "I had a lie in till 9 yesterday! Makes a nice change from 7am wake ups"
P "I wish I could do that! 5am for me!"
Me "I went out with x last week and she says hi"
P "I wish I could just go out like that, but now I have responsibility and baby sitters are expensive"
Me "I was so tired this week after being ill, I really need to catch up with some cleaning and washing"
P "You don't know what tired is. I haven't slept in 3.5 years"
Me "Ugh. X repair costed a lot. But builder did good job. Still though. The price was eye watering"
P "I couldn't even afford that. You can't imagine how much child costs. We have not much left over"

P "We are ok. She threw up at me 5 times yesterday, but today it was just once so it's getting better."

No wonder I don't want them😂 No "meaning of life" is worth this!

Seems pretty obvious to me that there are only two reasons why an adult might not have children: they don't want them enough to have done it, or they do want them but for whatever reason they haven't been in a position where this is possible.

I guess if you know someone well enough to wonder about their life you might wonder about which it is, in the same way you might wonder why someone you know has or hasn't made a particular decision about lots of things. But I don't think the reason why someone hasn't got a child is intrinsically more interesting to me than other things.

I never wonder why people don’t have children! I love DS but it’s not easy and there’s clearly pros and cons to a life with and without them.
I have friends with 4+ kids and friends with zero. As far as I know it’s through choice (appreciate I can’t know for sure) and everyone seems happy enough with their lives.

I used to wonder, when I was a teenager/ young adult and had limited experience of the world and understanding. But since my mid twenties, many reasons for not having them became obvious to me and since my late twenties I have started to actively wonder why people DO have them!

In particular a close friend of mine had a terrible experience with number 1 but has since started talking about number 2, despite the fact her husband has proven to be rubbish at helping out (he leaves all childcare to her even though she has a busy, high flying job). I just want to ask her whhyyyy is she doing this to herself again?!? But I won’t, because that would be rude and intrusive.

A close friend of mine never had children just because she never met anyone she wanted to have children with and who felt the same way. We usually meet without my children but recently had a day out together. She said 'God kids are hard work, arent they?' but she had that look on her face I sometimes get from my child free by choice sil which says 'Why the hell would anyone do this??!!' to which I have no answer really. My kids are usually some of the most well behaved too!

I find it interesting that many of them seemed to give far more thought and consideration into the decision than many of my friends who’ve had children.

This!!

I often wonder why some people do have children. I never wonder about why people don’t.

I know a woman who has 5 and is thinking about a 6th. She complaints constantly about every single aspect of parenthood and that she can not afford life as it is. And of course I wonder about the women who have children with absolute deadbeat dads. They were a deadbeat before the pregnancy, what did they think would change.

Maybe that's because you are one of the ones the child free on this post are referring to - the ones who have children just because of societal norms?

Oh, sod off.

I always wanted kids and love them to bits but I wasn’t so sad and pathetic I relied on them to give my life meaning.

I've never wondered this, tbh. Maybe because I am 99.9% sure I don't want them myself, so it doesn't register as something lacking in a woman over a certain age if she doesn't have kids.

If you're interested, I don't have (or probably ever want|) them because I hate the idea of a lifelong obligation, I like my life very much as it is, I enjoy having lots of free time and find spending too much time with anyone stifling, I find children generally quite boring, and I don't think I have the patience for it.

And we also have a laugh at people like @Sugarandspiceandallthat who genuinely seem to think they have the right to look down on us whilst completely missing the point that maybe one reason we haven’t wanted kids is to be able to stay away from people like her

Oh, we parents aren’t left out either from her judgement. Evidently the only right way to do anything is her way. Sad little person really. We should feel sorry for her.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh That sounds horrifically difficult for you, I really hope that things are looking up for you now.

looks at the state of my house after several hours of pointless housework

No. I know exactly why they don't....

I actually spend more time wondering why people do 😂

Turning the question on its head, why do some people have child after child, that they can’t afford to bring up without state benefits, with one, or a series of, deadbeat dads who don’t pay child maintenance, or share the parenting?

I’m not talking about people whose circumstances change after they have children (one parent dies, for example) or people who choose to have children they can afford in a stable relationship.

It seems to be socially acceptable to ask childfree / childless women why they don’t have children but not socially acceptable to ask these people why they chose to bring children into a stressful, struggle of a life?

Is it an uncontrollable urge to breed? Or did they just not think through the consequences of their actions.

Some people just can't plan ahead further than 5 minutes - like my single friends who earn 50k yet can't save any money because they're always out drinking. Another thread where a poster spent all her money travelling, and now after 6 months has suddenly found out nursery is expensive and she can't afford it and wants benefits.

I actually do wonder more why people DO want children. I know people who work 80 hour weeks, sleep 5 hours a night, have spoilt difficult kids who are looked after by nannies - and want another one. It must be some urge that I just don't have.

The only thing that horrifies me more than the concept of someone being so utterly dependant on me for such a long time - is the idea of someone being so pivotal to my mental health.
I do not want to spend the rest of my life worrying about something that I have very little control over.
Children get hurt, children get bullied, children get sick, children can die - I cannot begin to fathom the absolute chasm of pain it would be to lose a child.

And the responsibility - the neverending responsibility...
You'd have to be perfect ALL of the time, dedicate every, single, waking hour to another person because if you didn't - they could suffer, or cause suffering to others, and as a parent it would be my responsibility to ensure that I was the best I could possibly be for them every single day.

Honestly, I don't actually think I could do it because no matter how I raised my children - I KNOW I could have done better, tried harder, done something in a different way.

Not to mention the fact that there are far, far too many people already and the thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of pounds I'd spent on a child could be spent improving the world in a far greater way; having a child would only benefit me because I'd "never have a love like it" or somehow feel like I'd magically brought meaning to my life.

So No, I don't wonder why people have chosen not to have children.

I do look at the endless number of people who seem to have had children without fully thinking about it. Because there are countless number of people out there who rely on others to pay for their children, who are reproducing with feckless, idiotic men and who complain endlessly and passionately about their lack of freedom, lack of sleep, lack of money as if that wasn't a choice that they made for themselves.

Lots of people saying they wonder why people do have children. It’s a funny line but I don’t think it’s actually true. Nobody questions it when a married couple who have been together for a few years has a baby.

Yes. The hordes of people who stomp in on the debates about childcare/SAHM saying "I had no choice but to use childcare! I had no choice but to work nights to pay for my child! I had no choice but to quit my job because nursery was too expensive!"

But.....but....you chose to have children. You knew your circumstances, and you know there is a chance your circumstances could change at any time. If you didn't plan for that, well, that was your choice.

Haven't rtft but:

(Has anyone asked why non parents are on MN yet??)

There was one last week. It was really several pages long. The question is asked every few months. (As has been pointed out, parenting is only one of about twelve main subjects on MN. So, calling it Mumsnet isn't really just a marketing ploy, then, is it ?)

It's noticeable that some people want to undermine the choices of, 'child free by choice' on a thread like this. But they wont be trotting out their agenda on the pregnancy choices or ivf or miscarriage boards. I find that quite telling.

'We're happy as we are' is a good response to nosy questions about why you don't have children. I like the response, 'we practice anal sex, so it's unlikely to happen.' Even if it's only to shut down the nosy person who asked.

People get away with asking if you have children/why don't you have children. It really would be considered the height of rudeness to ask, 'are you happy to have children/be a parent' or 'were your children planned ?' As a counter question.

Who is going to look after me when I'm old ? Not the dead children, the estranged children, the living overseas children etc etc. You see, I don't have, 'insurance policy children.' Just having kids so I'm entitled get free geriatric care from them in the long run.

@BrightYellowDaffodil I'm going to get "Jupiter Rising in the East" pin badges made!

@PenguinBollard thank you. My life is really good, mostly. I don't have a high flying career, I haven't changed the world, I rarely get a holiday in this country let alone somewhere exotic, but I have something that I never thought I'd ever have - peace of mind.

I truely believe that we should challenge the expectations of society around having children and encourage girls (and boys) to actually think through the decision of whether or not to have them starting in their teenage years. I wish I had. I wish I hadn't just gone along with it all blindly because I could have saved myself and, possibly even my husband, the years of pain that we endured. I'm actually sat here with his mother, it's one of her chemo days, so we're wasting time on here....and she said earlier that she wishes that he could have seen a way to live without children and had been able to understand that life can be full without them.

There is a nutter on another thread that is accusing people of discriminating against mothers of newborn babies if they dare admit that they don't want the company of a child at an event. That truth is that once a woman has a child society does put her on a pedestal and she is treated as being special and also normal. The norm is to have children. Those of us who don't are the ones who really face discrimination, we are the ones who-

Are viewed as odd and freaks
Expected to pander to the demands of our friends with children if we dare to want to see them, like travelling long distances to visit, always being the one to compromise and then told we don't understand, we're not important etc etc when we dare to ask something of them (my approach is to avoid these people at all costs)
Expected to work unsociable hours, extra hours, Christmas, summer holidays etc so parents can spend time with their children - this is often at the detriment of our families, but they don't count
Expected to look after elderly relatives because we apparently don't have any responsibilities (sister I'm looking at you)
Generally accept that we are second class citizens who can be insulted, dismissed and made fun of.

You'd have to be perfect ALL of the time, dedicate every, single, waking hour to another person because if you didn't - they could suffer, or cause suffering to others, and as a parent it would be my responsibility to ensure that I was the best I could possibly be for them every single day.

I absolutely respect anyone's decision not to have a child for the vast majority of my adult life, I was one of those people but this is a ridiculous reason not to. No parent has to be 'perfect all the time'. No parent has to dedicate him or herself to their child 24/7. No parent can ensure their child does not suffer or cause harm to someone else.

By all means don't have a child if you don't want one, but having impossibly high standards for yourself as a parent is more than a bit megalomaniac, rather than a reason not to have a child.

*This always happens on these threads. Some parent comes on to tell us how sad we are. I don’t like children. They bore and irritate me. However, I’m not bitter. Bitter about what? How can I be missing out on something that I don’t actually want? I have a perfectly lovely life so please don’t concern yourself about my choices.

I made a conscious decision from a very early age that I didn’t want children and that doesn’t mean I have ‘issues’. I have plenty of meaning to my life and tbh I feel sorry for you in that you have such a very narrow and unimaginative mind that you can’t understand that not everyone wants what you have.*

Did@Sugarandspiceandallthat really use the phrase ‘making memories’? 😂 hashtag pathetic.

Leigh you are awesome. Just that, really.