To be told it wouldn't be good to go for an afternoon meal with my 6 week old

[Coconutbug]

Its my friends birthday next week and she wants to go out for a Sunday roast. The place she has chosen has a children menu.
She has just text me to ask if I'm coming because they need to put down a deposit.
I haven't seen any of this group of friends since before baby was born through one reason or another. None of them have children.
I have a 6 week old exclusively breast fed baby and I said yes I can come but will need to bring baby and pram.
Her response I'd love to see you and meet baby but I don't think that will be good because it's an upmarket place.

Granted it is quite fancy but if it has a children's menu it doesn't make me think twice about taking a baby.

AIBU???

I really don't think it's reasonable in any way to try to control everything because you've had a miscarriage.

It's desperately sad and upsetting to.miscarry, but it doesn't give anyone the right to take it out on.mothers who are happy and have new babies that they can't dump! Not to mention wouldn't want to.

Some here would clearly love to ban babies from restaurants because they've had poor experiences or don't want dc.

What if there are babies at the next table, after you've dissuaded a supposedly good friend from coming just because she's just had a baby, by telling her its not got a kids menu, and you'll be penalised if you can't make it at the last minute, because of, you know, baby. Or making her feel in any way thats she's less than welcome because she has a new baby. That is discriminating against her

You can't control the world, a world full of babies and dc. Women, and their babies, are entitled to go anywhere they want, including places where they don't check first if anyones had a mc or lost a baby.

I don't understand why Alicia is being so targetted just because she has a different opinion.

Thats also allowed

Not wanting a new born at your birthday lunch table because you’ve had a miscarriage is hardly “wanting to control everything”. I think that is an unpleasant thing to say.

Turning it on its head, wanting to “control everything” because you have a newborn you can’t leave and don’t want to miss out isn’t exactly reasonable.

I agree with a lot of what smother is saying.

I also think we need to build awareness as a society that mums and newborns often come as a package and it’s often not reasonable to expect babies to be left.

So while I think it’s fine to say you dont want babies, that can often mean the mother is excluded.

I’d be interested to know what the cultural practices around this stuff in countries with much higher bfing rates than our own.

You can't control the world, a world full of babies and dc.

You can control who you invite to your birthday lunch. You cant control who else is there. But can control who sits at your table for a meal you organised.

Women, and their babies, are entitled to go anywhere they want, including places where they don't check first if anyones had a mc or lost a baby.

Not if they arent invited.

There are loads of places babies aren't allowed.

I disagree there.

It absolutely is.

Its completely reasonable to be very upset at mc. Its not healthy, and is controlling to try to eradicate babies from your proximity as a result, its also pretty cruel to friends who have babies and do feel for anyone who's mc.

Its not anyone elses fault someone mc, I do get that some would be too upset to be around babies after a mc, but to exclude a friend directly is very misplaced behaviour and cruel.

Some who have tried and desperately wanted dc and for whatever reason can't have them choose to cope by avoiding babies. This is painful for those friends who have dc amd want nothing but the best for their friend who's suffering.

Taking punitive measures directly against her is really horrible.

Take responsibility for your own feelings instead of trying to control others as a coping mechanism.

I have been on both sides of this. Devastated by mc, and have friends who haven't been able to conceive, had stillborns/mc.

There are loads of places babies aren't allowed.

Not really. Some specific adult only spaces, but I would not say ‘loads’.

*Not really. Some specific adult only spaces, but I would not say ‘loads’.

Ok. There are loads of adult spaces across the country.

Or 'actually babies aren't entitled to go wherever their parent chooses'

Being pedantic doesn't improve the point.

OP was invited. Her child wasn't. Therefore the child isnt entitled to attend.

and is controlling to try to eradicate babies from your proximity as a result, its also pretty cruel to friends who have babies and do feel for anyone who's mc

Ridiculous. If you are dealing with emotional trauma, it's entirely reasonable to not have yourself in a situation that is upsetting.

Is it so hard to know that by excluding the baby you exclude your friend?

This has been said, over said, been a common theme.

Noone should assume they can separate, or indeed ahould separate a mother and baby.

You alienate mothers.

If thats your choice that's your choice, but it would be unreasonable to think it a reasonable thing to do to a friend.

Of course, you can, and people do, for all sorts of reasons, but that doesn't mean its fair, reasonable or a kind way to treat someone who's suposed to be your friend

Choosing a child free space when you are fully aware that a good friend has a new baby is actively choosing to exclude the friend.

All other forms of blanket exclusion are rightly called out as discriminatory, you couldn't exclude any other class of person.

All these places allow animals where needed.

Parents of older dc can make choices about having their dc around, and reasonable to want adult only experiences, but this isn't a choice for a new dm, and it shouldnt have to be.

God you would think babies were devil spawn or something!

i also think we need to build awareness as a society that mums and newborns often come as a package and it’s often not reasonable to expect babies to be left

I agree it’s not reasonable to expect newborns to be left but the mothers can decline.

It’s not reasonable to expect people to have a baby along to everything if they have a friend who is a new mother either.

So you have to decide whose wishes take priority for any given event, and I think it should be quite obvious the birthday girl’s wishes for her own birthday celebration are more important on this occasion.

Choosing a child free space when you are fully aware that a good friend has a new baby is actively choosing to exclude the friend

So one’s friends decision to have a baby acts as a fetter on one’s right to ever do anything in a child free space?

The problem is smotheroffive is that you think that mothers are more important than other people and their wishes and needs should always take precedence.

It is a massive problem with society that women’s value is judged by whether they wish to/are able to have children. Women are so much more than that and your attitude that child free women aren’t entitled to their own wishes and needs is incredibly sad.

You alienate mothers.

When you choose to have a child, others don't choose it. It's not their decision.

It's not reasonable to say others have to accommodate your choice.

If going to events was so important to OP, maybe she should have consulted the friend before TTC?

Like I said, and you've side-stepped, it absolutely is reasonable to manage your own environment.

Some examples of what I mean which might make it clearer, having just mc I didnt feel I could control my emotions around having my friends round who have babies. I wouldn't be asking them to leave their babies at home because 'my feelz!'

I would exclude myself to deal with my own upset, not enforce control over the situation.

I would not want to go out where there were mothers and babies perhaps,but wouldn't expect mothers to absent themselves or their babies because 'my feelz'

I have stayed home, withdrawn from social life to heal and recover from the loss. I would not put myself upon others in a meal situation where there were mothers and babies and expect them to not bring their babies because of 'my feelz'.

There is a difference between wanting spaces for adult socialising and choosing one in the full knowledge that this would exclude a good friend.

No, none has to accommodate their friends at all. However, what does that tell your friends, if you are not prepared to accommodate such as this?

All these places allow animals where needed.

As in service animals? Are you really comparing a baby to a guide dog?

I'm not sure about those questions at all longdrive

They are really odd. I wouldn't know how to begin to such odd and sarcastic [presumably] commentary.

...to respond

Like I said, and you've side-stepped, it absolutely is reasonable to manage your own environment.

Am I missing something?

This is the friends own environment. Its her birthday gathering. How exactly does she exclude herself from that?

The questions are quite clear. Do you think babies are comparable to guide dogs?

A person who can not see and needs a guide dog to be able to go our and abour with a degree or safety.....compared with someone taking their baby with them?

No, nonehasto accommodate their friends at all. However, what does that tell your friends, if you are not prepared to accommodate such as this?

That you want a child free meal. That's what it tells people.

I don't understand why Alicia is being so targetted just because she has a different opinion.

She’s not being targeted for her opinion, she’s having her hypocrisy pointed out.

Yes, you can exclude your good friends [with new babies] by inviting them to a childfree environment, of course you can

I wouldn't want to exclude my friends with new babies, I would want them to feel welcome, and would love to see them at my birthday celebration.

In my mc situation, I wouldn't be out putting my needs ahead of upsetting and excluding others.

I don't agree that its reasonable to make it in any way difficult for DMs with new babies.

I just can't agree it's in any way acceptable to treat DMs or friends this way.

In my mc situation, I wouldn't be out putting my needs ahead of upsetting and excluding others.

That's you. Just because that's you, doesnt mean other people can handle it the same way.

All this concern about women who have had children. Yet, no empathy for someone who deals with mc differently to you and does what they feel they can handle.

Why are you clarifying 'dms' or friends. The title Mother doesnt give anyone special entitlements.

Being a mother doesnt entitle you do anything and attend anything you want.

Theres a few pp on here who do seem anti-baby and who pick apart every single thing that others who disagree have said.

It's an observation of how this thread has progressed and its seems very unsupportive of women generally.

It's exclusionary.

There's at times been a real anti-baby vibe.

There's not, that I've noticed, any anti-childlessness attitutude.

It seems like there's a one-sided expectation, that a woman who experiences one of the most life-changing emotional experiences has to shut up, not have her baby with her because others don't want to see it?

It's as if some believe that a baby can be just be put aside, dropped and left, or that DMs should be doing that. That would be unreasonable.

I don't understand why Alicia is being so targetted just because she has a different opinion.

No dear. You wouldn't.

@Smotheroffive IT'S NOT FUCKING DISCRIMINATION

I am sat here with my black mother in law. If you want to knkw what real discrimination is, she'd be happy to give you a list.

Odd presuppositions, and interpretation

Why do you repeat that DMs are entitled?

Do you not like the term 'Mother' or DM?

You do you.

You actively exclude your friends that have just had babies if thats your thing. I hope none of your friends think thats either a friendly or reasonable thing to do.