Are you really that bothered about shared toilets?

[Beaverdam]

We were discussing this in work the other day. I really dont care about sharing toilets with males but some of the other women are really annoyed about the idea.

Are you annoyed about this? If so, what isit that you dont like about it? Do you think that the men will perve?

#Me Too has made it blatantly clear how many women have experienced predatory behaviour from men in their everyday lives. I have been physically grabbed by men on the street, a friend was sexually assaulted walking home at night, another was grabbed and head butted by a man whose advances she rejected, a school friend was raped in a graveyard - I could go on. These things happened in public places. Why would I want men in my safe spaces, where I feel especially vulnerable? No way.

Be pleased it was just wee @TheReluctantCountess a very very smart agency head office where I worked for many years constantly had problems with stench making the men’s toilets unusable, common occurrences of shit on the toilet seats, broken toilet seats, shit on the wall - not isolated incidents! I reported in to one of the board members and he was constantly complaining about having to send emails about shit - literally! This is why I wouldn’t want to share toilets with men!

Personally it's the fact that it opens up the potential for sexual predators to hang about in these places to attack someone. I know it isn't exactly the norm and if they are going to do so they would but its more that a bloke hanging about female toilets looks dodgy and may be reported, a bloke hanging about a mixed gender toilet may look a bit odd if his taking forever but would not be reported. Plus it's the potential of little girls going to the toilet and a man standing there either using a urinal or in a cubical taking a piss with the door open. I think these days there should be three options with toilets. Male, female and unisex. This way you use the one for your biological gender or you can use one designed for everyone.

Hate it. Will avoid. All so uncivilised, like going back in time. Who implements these pc policies.

I didn’t think I would be bothered. Then one day I went into the loo and there was only me and a man in there, and I felt nervous and the adrenaline started pumping.

As women we grow up being aware of personal safety in a way that men aren’t. We park in well lit busy areas. We lock the car door as soon as we get in. We hurry nervously through anywhere that’s isolated. We glance over our shoulders. We learn to be wary of places where there’s nobody else around because we’re alert to the possibility of being attacked. Then we go into a small windowless loo with only one exit and no cameras, and we’re supposed to feel ok about a strange man being in there with us. When the fact is we’d be nervous if we were alone in any other isolated place and a man walked in.

So do we need to ‘grow a pair’ and ‘man up’ and share our spaces?

Hell no. There’s a reason we have had these spaces, and there’s a reason why we are hot wired this way - it’s our second nature - we are sensitive to any danger and potential risk. Humans have evolved to have this ‘sixth sense’ to assess risk and keep ourselves from harm. Ignore it at our risk.

I’m confused now with the personal safety comments. Are we talking about large corporate type headquarters type buildings with colleagues around outside, or maybe a bar or restaurant? Or are we talking about an isolated public loo in, say a park? Both so very different.

@StarLightLady read the thread. It's stated in lots of threads what type of toilet depending on the poster.

This way you use the one for your biological gender

No such thing as “biological gender”. Sex is biology (scientific fact), gender is what society expects because of that (girls are kind, boys are tough). Conflating sex and gender is what’s fuelling this erosion of female rights. So stop it. Please. Language is important.

When the fact is we’d be nervous if we were alone in any other isolated place and a man walked in.

Yes, and it would make sense for the loos, where you remove some of your underwear to be a place where a woman should expect a man to walk in.

Shouldn’t expect

I'm completely bothered by it. I'll go back to chaperoning my kids to toilets now and avoid shared facilities like the plague. My dd even avoids the fucking bastarding unisex toilets at school. Good old SNP governments virtue signalling like hell and starting the brainwashing with the kids who have no say.

A proportional number of well designed unisex toilets in a central place for those with dysphoria- great. Sticking labels on existing poorly designed toilets? No thank you.

I’m fed up with 0.1% of the population telling me who I have to share a toilet with etc. And now this 0.1% want my sports and my gender equality statistics.

I’ve just had a thought - in the 70s I remember places dabbling with this and it didn’t take off because people didn’t really like them. I think it was in an attempt to be ‘all continental’ and possibly a nod to ‘wimmins lib’ (maybe?). Is that why it really flunked - because it was for women? Is this why its so pervasive now - because it’s not a woman’s movement?

I’m going to have a nosey around now because I’m curious.

I’ve just had a thought - in the 70s I remember places dabbling with this and it didn’t take off because people didn’t really like them

In the 70s 'gender-neutral' was thought to be the answer to women's problems. The argument was that women's inequality stemmed from being treated differently to men. Hence 'Ms', gender-neutral toilets and suchlike. At the same time, some feminists were calling for gender-neutral pro-nouns. See Marge Piercy's 'Woman on the Edge of Time' for an example and also a lot of other good SF writing from that perioud and the early 80s. Naturally, everyone laughed, - those silly wimmins, hee, hee, hee... and eventually women realised that 'equal' was good in the sense of pay and rights and bad in other senses.

Yes that’s how I remember it. Tv comedy shows would have skits with ‘right on’ wimmin earring dungarees with short hair spouting nonsense and how we ruined laughed at their ridiculous demands. Equal pay! Equal rights! Ms not Miss/Mrs!

Isn’t it weird?

Toilets I have no problem with (although I don’t want to see any urinals 🤮) changing rooms I don’t want to be unisex.

I vividly remember the Goodies' 'Gender Education' ...

I never laughed (actually I don't remember these shows, I do remember comedy with men dressed as women) and I did benefit. I was 'Ms' from the age of 12 and did have access to gender-neutral toys and suchlike, simply because they were what was being sold at the time. In my school, 'girls' careers' were challenged. I'm not for completely retreating from gender neutrality, but I also recognise that there are spaces where bodily difference is very important.

My daughter was at a theatre workshop last week. I was waiting in the cafe.
She wasn’t feeling great and asked me to come to the toilet with her.
She had terrible cramps and realised she had come on her period and had flooded.
I had to wash her pale pink dance tights in the sink so I could dry them under the dryer and she could put them back on and then she asked for a sanitary towel (her bag was inside the studio still) to be passed under the door.

They were mixed sex toilets.
She was horrified. Though we normalise periods etc, this was too much. I felt awful for her as it completely and utterly ruined an event she had been looking forward to for months and months.
Men were coming and going while all this was going on. It would have been bad enough if they had been female only toilets, but they weren’t. Cubicles were not floor to ceiling and sinks weren’t in cubicles- just a row of cubicles and a row of sinks opposite.
We will never go there again and I have lodged strongly worded complaint.
Who ever thinks this is a good idea needs a good talking to.

Let's face it, anyone who has grown up with a father and brother or is married to a man and has sons will have experienced shared toilets.
However, the big difference is that family members are generally considerate in leaving the place clean and tidy (or are "trained" to do so), whereas random members of the public (and that also includes females) may not have the same sensibilities.

Again. There is a huge difference between sharing loos with men who are family or known and trusted colleagues and loos in the public domain.

Let’s not keep diluting the issue with ‘don’t know what the fuss is, I used mixed loos at home or at my small office’.

I REALLY don’t want one of my daughters to go into a mixed sex loo and find a man urinating with the door wide open, as several women on these threads have reported seeing .
Why should we now have to chaperone our daughters in every previously single sex space ?
I do not give a damn about the desires of the small group of males who want access to all women’s spaces. I care about the safety and dignity of girls and women .

Why would a man want access to female toilets and changing facilities?
Hmmm what reason could there be?
Oh yes very dubious ones,

I have used several mixed sex loos recently.
2 campsites in France: both large, busy sites packed with families.
One: spotless, seemed to have a dedicated cleaner all the time.
Fully enclosed cubicles, floor to ceiling doors and walls, showers large enough for a parent to go in with a child. Separate room for urinals. All very well lit with no hidden corners.
The other: just yuk. Poorly lit, had to walk past the urinals to get to the cubicles- several had no locks and none had floor to ceiling doors or walls.

Our local museum has recently been updated- the former ladies is now "gender neutral ". It is down a little used corridor with "moody" lighting- when you are inside it is very quiet and feels very isolated. The doors were full height but it still didn't feel safe.

Over the years I have worked in (and cleaned) a lot of pubs etc and invariably the men's loos stink and have urine all over the seats and floor- the ladies might not be palaces of purity but are at least usable!

So, no mixed sex loos for me please. It is only a small section of the community who want these- why are their wishes so much more important than everyone else?

I can't imagine many men want a mixed sex toilet. My DH certainly doesn't and told me that he felt uneasy using one in a restaurant last week.