Are you really that bothered about shared toilets?

[Beaverdam]

We were discussing this in work the other day. I really dont care about sharing toilets with males but some of the other women are really annoyed about the idea.

Are you annoyed about this? If so, what isit that you dont like about it? Do you think that the men will perve?

I am. I’ve been raped and sexually abused and feel very threatened by men.

A couple of people have asked where the push for gender neutral is coming from.

Well, here's one guy who was pushing for them:

www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/mayor-quizzed-gender-neutral-toilets-16437625

Until, that is, he was arrested for child sex offences: www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/middlesbrough-tory-councillor-appear-court-16586889

You couldn't make it up, could you.

And by mentioning who is pushing for this, it will hopefully get others to see for themselves who is pushing for the changes.
Wonder when they see the truth from legitimate sources will they be so blaźe?
And I suggest that when looking, go beyond the toilets and changing cubicles. Search for some of the points raised here if your sceptical.
And when you do say hello to the mad Hatters tea party.

Edward Lord OBE is another. He is Deputy of the City of London Committee.

He identifies as non-binary - but still feels male enough to be in the Masons.

In 2018 he sent out a consultation to make all public toilets/changing facilities in London gender neutral (ie mixed sex).

This consultation was noticed by mumsnetters - many of whom publicised it to ensure women had their say.

Edward Lord then rejected 50% of the responses depending on how a question on "gender identity" had been answered - and is pushing through gender neutral toilets in the city of London anyway.

This includes the Hampstead Heath women's pond - and presumably explains why all the theatres, museums have suddenly gone mixed sex as well.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3592053-City-of-London-Consultation-Results-they-cant-get-away-with-this#87238682

These aren’t single instances either. A lot of people tend to view it as a singular issue each time. ‘Oh, that’s really not a big deal, is it. Why does it matter so much? They only want to pee.../etc’ but that really is not the case. This is a concerted drive. It’s a push across all sections of society to bring in an end to any and all sexual boundaries.

Read up on the NSPCC, for example. Queer theory. Girl guides and safeguarding. School and teaching policies. University. It’s everywhere.

Have a look through the feminist board. Read around this and similar issues. Then come back to the issue of single sex toilets and see if you still feel the same way.

Women, if you want to keep your single sex toilets, you will need to speak up every time you see them. Then vote with your feet and tell them why.

This is no accident. Women's facilities are being carefully and deliberately eroded.

@zebrasdontwearbras if it wasn’t for MN I wouldn’t have know about it to have my say ignored. I live in the city, and no one I knew was aware.
For that reason alone it should have been scrapped.

My apologies. I have inadvertently misgendered Edward Lord there. I'll just repeat in case HQ get sniffy.

Edward Lord OBE is another. Edward is Deputy of the City of London Committee.

Edward identifies as non-binary (they/them pronouns, I believe) - but still feels male enough to be in the Masons.

In 2018 they sent out a consultation to make all public toilets/changing facilities in London gender neutral (ie mixed sex).

This consultation was noticed by mumsnetters - many of whom publicised it to ensure women had their say.

Edward Lord then rejected 50% of the responses depending on how a question on "gender identity" had been answered - and is pushing through gender neutral toilets in the city of London anyway.

This includes the Hampstead Heath women's pond - and presumably explains why all the theatres, museums have suddenly gone mixed sex as well.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3592053-City-of-London-Consultation-Results-they-cant-get-away-with-this#87238682

Absolutely, ffswhatnext - that whole consultation was done on the quiet. Because Edward Lord is only too aware that in fact, most women, and a fair few men, do NOT want this.

If it's wasn't for Mumsnetters I'd have never known about it either.

It's horrid. I've used some at a small office and it's just very awkward. Men especially who are aware of women's need to have their own spaces are basically apologetic that they are having to use the space as well. Why can't women say they need their own spaces and for this not to be accepted without question?

If they made all public loos unisex and had to remove the Urinals because of this, men would soon be kicking up more of a fuss than women, when they'd end up queueing alongside women for cubicles........then the rules would change again.

My DH has said he doesn’t want all loos to be gender neutral as he doesn’t want to have to stand in line to pee. He likes having a urinal.

And once you delve deeper you see it’s not just those wanting the change that are arrested.
It’s criminals using self ID to get better sentencing as women, regardless of their time.

Do people really want women prisoners locked up with rapists and abusers? If we can get changed with them in gyms. If we can sleep with them in women’s refuges. Then what’s the difference right? We are equal in every way. So what’s the female boxer not wanting to fight the male boxer? They are the same right?

Think about what you are potentially giving up with the I’m not bothered attitude.

Once you start to give up some rights this can have serious implications on a grander scale. It’s already happening and will get worse if we stand by and let it happen. The fight isn’t over yet. It will only be won when we go back to reality that these spaces are there for legitimate reasons, not because of a whim.

And yes to the poster who said the females are like a social area. What is all that about? I go in, piss, wash hands and go. I don’t hang around in my toilet at home, so why in public toilets? I don’t want to stand round hearing people piss and fart. Just why do you do it?

@Winesalot of course you know that will never happen anyway, what you will have is men being able to use both sets of toilets and women ending up sharing with everyone.....so more queues for us yay

I worked in an office with the single-use cubicles which anyone could use. There was a corridor with doors on both sides - each cubicle was fully contained with sink, sanitary bins etc and the doors fully closed top to bottom. Each floor of the building had at least one of these corridors with about 10 loos or so in each corridor.

They were much nicer than traditional office loos - and they were always nice and clean without pee on the seats etc. And you couldn't hear a sound when you were inside one so no worries about hearing anyone in the next cubicle etc.

So for mixed loos like that I can't see the problem - I wouldn't like a mixed loo with a shared sink space and those gaps under the doors - I don't really like those with the same gendered strangers very much.

Our local swimming pool has always had unisex changing cubicles (not floor to ceiling). On my first date with a boy aged 12 at this pool I caught him perving over the top of the cubicle on me as I got changed after swimming. I don't want to share toilets or changing rooms with men and I don't want my daughter to have to either.

I would be incredibly anxious and it would no doubt stop me going out. I'm just a woman so my feelings and fears don't count.

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest, but I'm a 47 yr old, overweight woman who's had kids.

It would however really bother my 11 yr old DD who would find it very difficult, she struggles with her body changing and has just started her period and obviously is going through puberty. She'd be horrified at the thought of boys or men in the same toilets or
Changing rooms - and quite rightly I think

Am I imagining this?
A few years ago weren’t men annoyed at the suggestion of feminine hygiene bins in the same cubicle?
Unisex toilets were discussed in relation to new public spaces and there being a limit in space.
So we are supposed to put up with urinals in the ladies and no bins in the men’s?

Not really inclusive is it when you think about it? It’s in name only.
To make it fully unisex then each toilet should be laid out in exactly the same way.

But outside of workplaces and some small business, there is no actual change made. Women still have to go into the old ladies for the sanitary bin. Guys who like a pp said, likes watching the cake thing being pissed up and down the urinal still have to go to the old men’s.

So can anyone give me a legitimate reason why they are needed? Neither toilet is set up for both sexes unless purposely designed this way.
And men’s weren’t designed to have a sanitary bin in the cubicle.

A man should have a legit reason for being in the ladies - ie his young dd wants to go loo and like many of us doesn’t want her in the men’s. He knows what goes on there. You want your small child to listen to some of the language (not saying we don’t also do this, just for whatever reason females are usually more aware of children around).

Yes I do mind, for all the reasons already stated. In a small office situation with few colleagues, possibly OK, but public areas with random people, no way.

Just because you are a 47 year old mum who is overweight doesn’t mean that you are safe from fetishes or perverts.

You have the cougar market covered, the milf, the guys who love bbw, never mind the ones that done care as long as they can hear you pee, or Male you feel uncomfortable in their presence. Think we’ve all come across whether personally or through someone else, a guy who gives you the creeps and won’t be alone in a room with him. He knows it. He gets off on it. He will be in heaven.

@ffswhatnext sorry but your post did make me chuckle What I guess I meant is I'm happy to tell someone to 'fuck off' should I feel the need to, I'd have the confident to do something about a situation if I feel uncomfortable/threatened, whereas my DD wouldn't. (And yes I know I shouldn't be made to feel that way, but it's the fact in most cases I could stand up for myself)

I don't even like sharing public toilets with other females at times! I have seen some downright nasty things in female toilets so mixing that with a mans mess - no thank you!
Also I feel it opens up a possibility of sexual assault on both sexes.

At my work the toilets are single cubicles with a sink ie not a row of cubicles with a row of sinks and are all single sex. I'm not bothered.

Great news Spidey66. What about in public loos and you are the only female with a male you don’t know standing around making setting off your spidey sensors or in pubs, nightclubs or where you need to take your children or elderly parent?