Are you really that bothered about shared toilets?

[Beaverdam]

We were discussing this in work the other day. I really dont care about sharing toilets with males but some of the other women are really annoyed about the idea.

Are you annoyed about this? If so, what isit that you dont like about it? Do you think that the men will perve?

That only works for those women who are not uncomfortable. It really doesn’t make any difference to those who don’t like men being around while they are in a vulnerable state. Why do you get to dictate what other women should be okay with? And it won’t work anyway since that type of man won’t fuck off - this is not about them feeling a bit awkward, you know. This is about men who are sexually aroused by dealing with women’s periods, bloody tampons, or men who will taunt, tease and cause distress, or men who will cause actual distress simply by their presence. I really think some women must be very naive.

Why should women have to just deal with that, when men can just use the toilets designated for them, and women can continue having safe, female-only spaces.

I don’t want to be around men who don’t understand periods. It’s a natural part of our lives.

Until this year I had periods that had me in hospital. When out of hospital not really a way to avoid the conversations when your in pain and want to be honest. Or when you leak through and it’s glaringly obvious.

I’ve had them offer to go shop and pick things up without a second thought. Even a Male acquaintance offer support. My teen son has also asked if I needed anything, even if it’s just a hot water bottle or something to drink because he knew I was quickly getting dehydrated. If he didn’t know I would have been left for hours to get water whilst waiting for the more appropriate female.

No different to buying toilet paper or condoms.

I’ve had conversations in shops with poor sods who have sent to the shop to buy sanitary stuff but not have a clue what to get. He doesn’t know what she uses because he never sees it. She doesn’t talk about it. How can they help if they are clueless.

Personally I have found males a lot more helpful than females when it comes to periods.
Female - ffs you don’t need to go hospital it’s only a period. Man up woman, it’s only a bit of pain, I’ve had much worse than a period pain. Woman at work skivving again cos of her periods, deal with it we all have them.

Men - do you need anything? I cannot possibly even begin to imagine how hard it is, what can I do?

Of course there are exceptions. Just based on my experience in real life and on here.

What you suggested was that we should not deal with our periods with them around incase it makes them uncomfortable and we have to put up with stupid comments from them

I did nothing of the sort

As far as I understood, you were the one saying that we should ignore their behaviour and take actions to stop them being exposed to it

Eh?

No, I was (obviously unsuccessfully) making the point that unisex toilets were a bad idea.

And you think you can educate men out of being pervs and harrassing women? Really??

Forgot to say but I still don’t want a man in what is my space.

If we could educate men how to respect women, there would be a lot less males in prison. Assuming they have been caught in the first place

Yes, I have very good men in my life too. I have had decent and kind male colleagues too.

All of that is entirely beside the point.

Why is the onus on women, always, every time, to just be okay with things, to just accept things, to just move over and let the men have their space??

It boggles my mind the mental pretzel knots people tie themselves into because they just can’t conceive that it is perfectly fine for a woman to say, no, I don’t want this.

@TheHonestTruth100

No need to get arsey about something I'm correct about.
Christ, you sound unbearable. I've rarely heard anything so sanctimonious. You have periods, bully for you.

I didn't talk negatively about those embarrassed about their period, I said it's a damn shame that we're taught to be embarrassed about periods and it's something that needs to change as this mentality causes a massive amount of stress for women.

You did, you shamed women who have a different view than your own. Contrary to your own belief, you are not a paragon of superiority for having more confidence.
Lack of respect for differing boundaries also causes a massive amount of stress for women. Something your post reeks of by the way...
Maybe consider the fact that not everyone thinks the way you do before preaching your own belief as gospel?

I am in no way ashamed of my periods. I am also disabled and, sometimes, ashamed of my own body and it's failings, as I have every right to be. I don't need you telling me how I shouId feel about myself. Nor does any other woman.

Why do you get to dictate what other women should be okay with?

Why do you get to encourage secrecy and embarassment surrounding periods that cause millions of women worldwide to suffer in silence, not realise their menstrual bleeding is not normal because no one will talk about it, allow a disease to progress to a point of infertility?

I am not dictating anything. I'm encouraging women not to be embarrassed about something so natural and important to talk about. I am also not using it as an argument for unisex toilets either, I'm just making a point about periods.

There are SO MANY reasons why mixed sex toilets are a shit idea that I amazed anybody even questions that, and anyone who didn't I would frankly be questioning their ability to see beyond the end of their nose. Did you know there was a dead man's body found behind the wall of a women's toilet area in Canada (a year or so ago) - he crawled through the ventilation system, got into the wall cavity behind a toilet cubicle and got stuck - not a member of staff who had any legitimate reason to be there so I wonder why he did that...! It was in the news. This stuff actually happens.

There is no way I would feel comfortable going for a poo or to change sanitary products (even trying to be as quiet as humanly possible) knowing there was a man in the cubicle next to me - I wouldn't even want to go for a poo in as close proximity as that to my own DH, let alone some male stranger!! I feel safe in women only toilets, but I wouldn't in mixed sex. Lots of men are lovely and respectful, but lots aren't. Voyeurism DOES happen. Assaults DO happen. And then there's just the plain old fact of wanting - and being entitled to - privacy in intimate moments. I most definitely wouldn't want my DD sharing toilets facilities with grown men, no fucking way!!! I'd be happy to let her go to female only toilets alone, but mixed sex? Forget it. (Some) men are predatory in a way that women just aren't and to bury your head in the sand about that is foolish and short sighted. And, let's be honest because it's true, men's toilets stink and are often left in a disgusting state and I don't want to use facilities that are already filthy soon after they've been cleaned, or dodging piss puddles on the floor.

And you think you can educate men out of being pervs and harrassing women? Really??

Where the hell did I say this?? I was talking about PERIODS.

you shamed women who have a different view than your own

I said I'm SAD and UPSET that society is making women feel like this. That's not shaming anyone or anything. Feel free to continue making stuff up if you like.

Look,

You can just fuck off.

I’ve done no such thing.

Fuck right off.

How dare you try to lecture me??

I’ve no embarrasment in relation to periods and/or other bodily function. I’m not encouraging any shame or secrecy.

You’re so hard of thinking it’s not even funny. I’m not going to engage with you, because you’re not worth my time. I have other far more pressing things to worry about. Like the overriding principles that women are not to blame for what men do to them, vulnerable women deserve safe spaces, and just because one woman doesn’t see the need for safety, security and privacy, doesn’t mean that all other women need to lie back and let men have whatever they want.

How about a compromise? We all start talking to men about periods, including complete randoms we meet on the tube, but we keep our own women’s toilets? As a bonus, I’m also happy to educate men about hot flushes and menopausal rage.

And just to be clear, I don’t actually disagree with you on periods and shame, I’m very much of the same mindset as you.

But it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with sex segregated toilets!

The world is not an ideal place. It’s never going to be. And it’s especially not ever going to be ideal for girls and women. Idealism doesn’t fix the world’s problems.

We have to protect those who do not have our privilege.

(Sorry for swearing at you)

Why do you get to encourage secrecy and embarassment surrounding periods that cause millions of women worldwide to suffer in silence, not realise their menstrual bleeding is not normal because no one will talk about it, allow a disease to progress to a point of infertility?

Wow...that is one massive fucking leap you have made there.

There is nothing wrong in respecting privacy and dignity.

@TheHonestTruth100

Feel free to continue making stuff up if you like.

Oh what a robust reply. That's me told!
Likewise, you feel free to kid yourself that a woman reading your posts wouldn't ever feel ashamed or embarrassed for feeling unable to tell a man to fuck off as you recommend.
You do you, but let's not pretend you have the slightest ounce of respect for the boundaries of others.

@Littledidsheknow

I am very careful of not allowing my DD to go to loos without me checking them out first either. She is 13 and she wants independence, so of course I make sure the loo is not mixed and not in a risky spot.

I understand exactly the issue with unisex toilets and kids.

@Ninkaninus

This was exactly my thoughts when reading your (rather harsh) response. We're fighting for the same thing!

My points were surrounding the many replies on this thread referencing periods as a reason why we should have sex segregated toilets. The taboo around periods has caused so many women to suffer for such a long time. That's the only point I've been trying to make though my replies. It upsets me that women are embarrassed to change a sanitary product in a stall where there is a man around that might hear it.

As I said, I am NOT downplaying anyone's worries or experiences regarding their safety and want for privacy. I have not experienced a safety concern myself but completely understand the point and completely understand why people would be uncomfortable with unisex toilets. I'm not saying we should have unisex toilets

I'm amazed at how many people here switch to using personal insults on people sharing points of view which are ALL valid, including those I disagree with (well I'm not really amazed, this is an online forum after all where people can troll behind their computer screens).

We have shared toilets at work (only 4 women and 15+ blokes) and ideally I would prefer women only toilets as the blokes here wee on the floor and constantly leave skidmarks (grim I know!)
I don’t have periods so I am not remotely bothered about that.

I share toilets at work with male members of staff at work and that doesn't bother me. In public yes it bothers me. Horrendously heavy periods and I've in the past had to ask other women for help. Some men I'd be happy to ask for help (men I'm close with, men I'm friends with) if I was in a home environment, but not random men in a public setting.

I do think though that trans people feel unsafe in their biological sex toilets and something needs to be done about that too. It's not fair that we have people in society who feel so unsafe. I don't know what the answer is.

What do I not like about this?

1; Nobody thought to ask women if they minded

2; Women are now saying no, we don't want to share our space. Just because some women don't mind it's not OK. It needs to be a unilateral decision so that no biological women then become excluded from womens spaces.

3; It's not just toilets though is it? We are talking prisons, rape crisis centres, womens shelters, schools. I read the other day that a judge in Switzerland(?) had ruled that the adolescent girls had no right to visual privacy from the boys while in a state of undress.

Womens rights are slowly and surely being taken back from them. I feel for the women on this board who have daughters. We have to keep fighting.

I am angry. In fact I’m fucking livid with the men of the world who drive this, and with the women of the world who facilitate it (although far less so because I know that many women are too conditioned by misogyny to be able to clearly see it). Sometimes that anger comes out in bursts with those I’m engaging with, which is unfair.

I’m not bothered in the slightest but I understand why others are.

I don’t see men as a threat to me at all but appreciate I’m lucky in that sense

As I said, I am NOT downplaying anyone's worries or experiences regarding their safety and want for privacy.

Spectacular backtrack

My DH is always talking about how manky the mens toilets are in bars/shopping centres etc

In work we have 2 unisex toilets but they're actually proper rooms so not too dissimilar from a toilet in someone's house. Wouldn't be too big of a fan of having to share with men, when you've got bathroom Stall type toilets, it's not private enough and I wouldn't feel comfortable. Is that not a good enough reason?

Yes, but those of us who don’t see (some) men as a threat, or who don’t suffer with awful repercussions of male behaviour towards them, are the lucky ones. We have no right to facilitate men’s abuse of other women who aren’t so lucky, nor to offer up our daughters/sisters/friends/mothers and grandmothers/any vulnerable women to predatory males.

This really is serious. Women are safer now because of hard-earned female-only spaces, that brave, strong women had to fight bloody hard for. It’s all being taken away, stealth move by stealth move, in a concerted effort.