To ask why everyone hates Corbyn?

[timeaftertime79]

I’d genuinely like to see some facts and reasons as to why Corbyn is so awful that people would choose voting Tory (and people dying) over him.

Genuine reasons that are factual ... I’m wondering what information I seem to be missing that everyone else is seeing?

*I have been highly disappointed by him. He comes across as totally clueless. He is a hopeless orator, in my opinion; he reads his points and can't debate. He is not at all a credible leader. I honestly had massively high hopes of a strong opposition leader when he came to power - all the "I'm going to bring in a kinder politics, less shouting in parliament" etc etc. That last all of ten minutes.

The thought of him being the PM horrifies me.*

I've just been trying to put in words how I feel about him but @Flippetydip has summed it up perfectly. He has been utterly atrocious in opposition to a horrendous government. The whole lot of them are an absolute disgrace. I despair at the thought of voting for any of them.

@TowelNumber42

yes I'm sure there was overlap between Sinn Fein and the IRA. To this point in the debate, I made no comment on that but I'm perfectly willing to accept that. In fact given that Sinn Féin's website currently declaims that they want people to "join Ireland's only truly all Ireland political party" and to "Help us finish the revolution for a new Republic" it would be a wee bit surprising if there wasn't some overlap 😳

I pointed out that when JC met McG and Adams they were senior figures in Sinn Fein and Sinn Fein is not the IRA. It's a democratic political party.

It is legal to be a member. It is legal to speak to people who are members, leaders even. But earlier posters repeatedly stated as fact that JC met with the IRA and did not condemn the IRA. Those things are simply not accurate and not evidenced.

I also pointed out that other senior UK politicians over many years definitely did meet with and negotiate with members of the IRA and it is well documented in our National Archives - including in documents annotated in Margaret Thatcher's own handwriting.

I've made my points, I have been factual and I've provided evidence to support my position. You haven't. If it is there, present it.

If you can't, don't. It shouldn't be that hard to counter my arguments properly if you are right.

@bellinisurge I was quoting @TowelNumber42 at 13:42 and then responding to her points...

I agree though. Total bollox.

Don't forget large numbers of Labour MPs didn't want him when he was first elected, and many left the shadow cabinet, some even leaving the Labour party, including some pretty senior figures. If they didn't want him as their Labour, it says a lot about him. (And they've been proved right as seen by his hopelessness in Parliament, his constant dithering, some of his dubious Shadow cabinet appointments, Diane Abbott, etc.)

It doesn't make someone an anti-Semite just because they criticise the state of Israel.

Of course not. Criticize away (although one does wonder why, out of all causes and injustices, he rather obsesses about the Palestinian one).

Many people criticize the state of israel, including many Israelis and Jews - and including myself!

Corbyn is anti semitic (or very stupid and naive) it goes way way further than just criticising the state of Israel.

I agree with the first bit that @PhDone wrote

He seems like a nice man, principled and would be a good local MP. But... generally a bit weak and ineffectual

I'm disappointed by Corbyn. I am in favour of a lot of Labour's current policies, but find it difficult to convince myself to vote for them given how ineffectual Corbyn seems. As a left-leaning person I would find it a shame if Labour moves to the middle/right again once Corbyn is out.

Apologies I've not RTFT, but this column in the Times today seems highly relevant.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/as-a-rabbi-i-say-that-it-is-wrong-to-support-labour-gzdrg7h27?shareToken=7ea10188dd20616d698e89729cef16d1

Chris Williamson was reinstated to the Labour Party (a decision so bizarre it was then overruled)

I wondered when that name would be brought up Unfortunately I know Williamson personally, have worked alongside him in community matters and have had to watch the way he operates

Leaving other issues aside for a moment, I'll just say that anyone at all who'd use this person as his attack dog is not someone I want to see anywhere near real political power

for those questioning stance on anti-semitism, the Jewish Labour are, for the first time, not campaigning for labour

www.thejc.com/comment/comment/jewish-labour-movement-not-campaigning-mike-katz-1.490941

sorry bloody phone. Jewish Labour Movement

@Ziraphale It's rare that we ever agree with a political party on everything. I have my disagreements with Lib Dem policy as well, but more considerable disagreement with Labour policy, and far greater still with Tory policy.

As to the topic of the thread, I'm not best placed to answer since I don't hate him.

The charge that he has not responded adequately to the allegations of institutional antisemitism is well-founded. The best evidence for this is the continued pressure on Labour over antisemitism. What I havn't seen is much in the way of evidence of personal antisemitism on his part. He's been critical of the Israeli Government on many occasions, but criticism of a Government has to be seen as distinct from ethnic discrimination.

@wedwoses, I took myself to Wikipedia for my info about that McGuinness chappie's continued links to the IRA. I had watched one of the TV docs referred to, and remember at the time thinking that it sounded pretty convincing.
And no, I hope I'm not a hypocrite: as I had already said, I'm no fan of Arlene F.

Personally, I think that governments having cautious diplomatic dealings with terrorist organisations in the pursuit of peace is one thing, but a random MP gaily glad-handing men who very likely have close links to those same organisations is quite another.

Ultimately, though, the thing that really sticks in my craw about Corbyn is his anti-Semitism, because it's not something in the past, it's now, it's ongoing.

Marmite!! Is what comes to mind like most politicians you either LOVE Him or HATE him!!

There is overlap too between the DUP and loyalist terrorist groups - yet this is never mentioned. Arlene Foster actually put herself forward to lead the totally sectarian Orange Order Parades in Glasgow - like we need her bigotry shipped across.

and of course - the DUP are hand in glove with Conservative and Unionist Party - and so Boris Johnson too

Ah well, right you are then, everyone who thinks Jezza got the politics wrong with terrorism in the Troubles is in error. The problem is, it felt wrong at the time to most people, which is why so many older people remember it. Whether you think he was right or wrong, he bolloxed up the politics of it in a big way. That's just about tolerable in a backbencher but not in the prime minister.

You could insert anti-semitism, misogyny and property rights into the above and the same would be true.

It's a shame he can't see it. The other parties can swing to extremes because the main opposition is so weak. I'd love to see a strong Labour party.

He's a Marxist and we really want one of those running the country. The way all the moderate Labour MPs were edged out was shameful.

I thought he was fantastic at first, but the policies Labour has put forward in the last 6 months are crazy. He's not doing the party any favours. Having said that, if it was a choice between him and Boris, I would choose Jeremy.

The labour party has gone too far left now, they were lobbying in my local High street. I mentioned that I had always liked the party, and the woman started shouting "Thank you my comrade, my sister in solidarity" etc. It was all a bit strange.

"Thank you my comrade, my sister in solidarity""
To be fair, that's not a new thing. That's been Labour Party schtick since it was founded.

Jezza's not a Marxist, yellowallpaper. He hasn't got the intellect to understand Marxism.

If anything, he's a Leninist; in it for himself first and foremost while disguising his self-interest with the politics of envy faux concern for the 'plight of the workers'.

As his 36+ years as MP for Islington North demonstrates, he's a nonentity who has spectacularly missed opportunity after opportunity to make his mark and make a difference to the lives of his constituents.

He has campaigned all his life to leave the EU but when he felt it was in his party's interest to stay in, campaigns for that.
Like Johnston, he puts party before country.

He is a terrorist sympathiser and an anti-Semite.

The Jewish Labour Movement are not supporting labour for the first time in a hundred years.

He was meant to usher in a new wave of kindness in politics but his Momentum supporters are vicious thugs.

He wouldn't help around the house during his first marriage and when his wife wanted to get a cleaner he accused her of being `bourgeois'.

He bankrupted the councils he ran in the 70's as he hasn't a clue about budgeting and thinks public money is not there to be squandered.

anyone who has any money who is able to, will leave the country if he is elected. The wealth will go abroad, along with the entrepreneurs who risk their lives to create it, and the country will go bankrupt like it did in the 70's.

The end.

I dont vote Conservative or Labour and hate both at the moment. But saying that choosing conservatives means people dying is not factual.

I am affluent (through sheer hard study and graft) but no way do the Tories speak for me. The ‘I’m all right, pull the ladder up’ attitude stinks and may as well be Victorian.
We need compassion in politics - there really is enough to go round if people were prepared to share.

But saying that choosing conservatives means people dying is not factual.

Get used to it, its loaded astroturfing that is common on MN during the run up to an election, been the same since 2010, ironically the narrative has been spun that Tory HQ have been active when it gets near the crunch and differing oponions pop up.

Then when the election result appears, there are multiple threads of their 5 yr old dc crying because of the result and them promising to move out of the country.

I am coming round to actually voting labour so they can have the poisoned chalice of brexit and Corbyn not be able to deliver on his unicorn policies only for a couple of years down the line momentum/life long tribal labour bots to say Corbyn wasn't true labour anyway.