To think that calling transwomen Male terms is against guidelines?

[ChilledBee]

That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions

So this is what Mumsnet say yet they allow threads which refer to the possibility of trans women using a changing room as "blokes". If I were a Trans woman considering giving my opinion around my presence in female changing rooms, hearing everyone refer to people like me as a man or a bloke would "hurtful" and "I'd struggle to engage". Why is this allowed, Mumsnet?

I use the term Marsha but think it's part of the problem, I think that term is part of why we are where we are in terms of women's rights.

Exactly what Anotherlongdrive says about using certain terminology at certain times depending on the crux of the discussion.

It’s interesting, it’s the first time I’ve thought about people refusing to use it for those reasons.

@DickKerrLadies that's an excellent point. If some one called me 'a lady of the night', I would be offended because everyone knows that means prostitute.

So, yes, if everyone knows transwoman actually means Male born but presents as a woman, surely Transwoman is offensive too.

The thing is, when you say 'transwoman' a lot of people still think about men who have had medical or surgical treatment to change their male body into a female one, 'present ' as a woman at all times and just want to go about their lives in peace.

That may have been the case a few years back. Because women are socialized to be kind and accepting, and the numbers were so few, we thought wheres the harm in not making things even more difficult for someone struggling with their own sense of self so much?

Then it all changed. These days you can be a full bearded hairy bollocked male, but if you stick on a dress and claim to feel female at that particular time then you should be accepted as such.

Grimbles male bodies cannot be changed into female bodies no matter what surgery is perform or hormones taken

You are either an xx or xy human being except for a teeny tiny percentage of people with a chromosomal disorder

Sex is immutable, human beings cannot change sex

Ok, so I should have said the word resemble there...

From the article about the MtF caught filming a teenage girl who was trying on swimsuits in a changing room:

Ms. Smith told a detective that she had made videos in the past of women undressing for the “same reason men go online to look at pornography”

And women are told we're bigoted for not wanting males (however they identify) in what used to be single sex spaces?

There's no evidence that transition makes any difference to male offending patterns. In fact in the UK prison system nearly half of the transgender prisoners are housed in sex offender institutions or maximum security prisons.

fairplayforwomen.com/prison-data-confirmed/

And Freedom of Information requests from 2017 confirmed that 60 out of the 125 transgender prisoners in England and Wales had at least 1 conviction for sexual offences. In comparison the percentage of sex offenders in the general male prison population is less then 20%.

fairplayforwomen.com/trans_prison_stats_2018/

@OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg hear hear, especially this:

I am so, so tired of women being thrown under the bus. I am tired of my safety, dignity and privacy being worth nothing when weighed against a few woke points for a company on social media. I’m tired of other women joining the queue to shit on me because my feelings aren’t as important as men’s and they’ve been socialised to place me above women. I’m tired of 50% of the population losing rights we fought for, in some cases for decades, for 1% who have, it has to be said, played a blinder in the Oppression Olympics and convinced a chunk of the population they have it worse than anyone. I’m tired of hurt feelings being “literal violence” when actual, violent violence is leaving women and girls dead, raped and devastated every day. I’m tired of whataboutery and pseudo-science and otherwise-rational people agreeing that the Emperor’s new clothes are lovely while the Emperor is helicoptering his penis at us. I’m just so fucking tired.

I, too, am tired. I'm especially tired of being Othered within my own sex with the label 'cis' that no woman invented.

The current self-ID movement (I refuse to use the word trans as it's insulting to the transmen and transwomen who worked so hard to carve out a small safe space) has lost a critical opportunity to have women activists firmly on their team.

I'm taking TERF and wearing it as a badge of honour. Get the fuck off my crowded bench.

Ms. Smith told a detective that she had made videos in the past of women undressing for the “same reason men go online to look at pornography”

If anyone wants a better illustration of the problems of "trans woman" and using female pronouns for male people I can't think of one.

Ms. Smith told a detective that she had made videos in the past of women undressing for the “same reason men go online to look at pornography”

This is a prime example of how preffered pronouns make something seem less sinister. If it had read

Mr Smith told a detective that he had made videos in the past of women undressing for the “same reason men go online to look at pornography”

If correct pro nouns had been used people would be questioning why on earth someone born as Male, but likes to wear 'womens' clothing, was allowed in their in the first place.

On the last post, Why would sex offenses, be so high amongst trans prisoners?

So much for 'their brain is just like womens'. I got told TW brain waves are the same as womens, on facebook, last week. I asked for the links to some actual scientific evidence. Or at least some evidence there is such thing as female brainwaves. The person said they would be back with the studies.

A week later they havent come back, despite they saying this again, in the facebook group. So they have been back.

It's about time that people stopped believing what someone says on twitter and actually looks up wether its fact or not.

Ah, brilliant. My post showing a woman with a sword in the ladies loo has been deleted. By woman I mean one of these 'I dont need to be female to be a woman" type women.

So we are now not actually able to show examples of why women are concerned.

Good job.

Careful prawn, actual concrete examples of male bodied women engaging in behaviour detrimental to female bodied women is not allowed.

@mnhq why was the photo of a TW hanging out in a womens toilet with a sword, deleted?

@MMHQ

How is a photo which calls a man a woman (like they're demanding) deserving of being deleted?
Is it because it proves that TRAs are purposely making women more vulnerable?

Did anyone see the headline this week

'Woman sets person on fire'

Shocking headline. Odd hiwvthe victims gender isnr mentioned though.

Of course biologically speaking the headline should have been

'male born person sets woman on fire'

2 very different stories and different reactions.

We don't live inside other people's heads. We live inside our own heads. When I look at a male, I can't see what he is thinking inside his head. I can only see what is there, just as I can only see a table is a table, a chair is a chair, a spoon is a spoon. Instead of being offended by the reaction a person gets if it does not means ones self-perception, a rational and intelligent person might regard it as useful information.

Ereshkigal

"That's how I perceive them. Its not personal. It's the truth."

I think that is how 98% of people think, so I find it very difficult to accept that we are being forced to think otherwise, when our reasoning is based on logic and biology.

The other issue for me is my concern about children being put on a medical pathway. In particular children with autism. I have worked with these children all my adult life and I can tell you we get it wrong for them a lot. Not through cruelty but because often we dont know what we are doing. I can't tell you the amount of medication I have given out (residential care), looking back do I think it was always necessary or in the best interest of the child. No I dont.
What if we are getting this wrong? If it's a choice between being called bigot or helping to prop up something which may be harming those children. Well I will go with bigot and if I am wrong I will have to live with that.
The language we use is important, we need to tell the truth. Pretending to autistic children that you can change sex doesn't seem in any way kind to me.

www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/think-your-child-might-be-trans-or-non-binary/

Medication is only one aspect of treatment. Each case is individual and frankly between parents, children and professionals. Nothing to do with you.

Er yes it has plenty to do with a parenting forum. Shall we just not have any monitoring or accountability at all? There are many professionals with concerns about how children are being treated.

Why is it nothing to do with me, L00seM00se? In my wider family a teenager has had a double mastectomy because of this crap. Major unnecessary surgery at a young age. It doesn't happen by waving rainbows at people, you know.

And we're just supposed to say how wonderful that is?

Stuff that.

The wellbeing of children is everyone's business.

This is well worth a watch if anyone hasn't seen it:

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0002tw1/panorama-trans-kids-why-medicine-matters

We now believe that gender identity is on a spectrum, with male at one end, female at the other and a "diversity" of gender identities in between.

From the NHS themselves. Bloody hell. The fact that they're even promoting gender as a legitimate concept at all.
Your boy likes dolls and the colour pink? Well let's medicate him beyond the point of undoing and remove his fertility. Sickening.

And yes, @L00seM00se I do have skin in the game. I have dedicatdd a career to helping vulnerable people and supported many young people through devastating traumas. This is more of the same.