To say sod it and actually go and help children who need it!!

[SimpleSaying1]

I run a Beaver scout group. When it started there was a great understanding from parents that this was a community thing and parents regularly volunteered and helped out. I was involved as my kids both went through and then I stayed on. As it has grown it has become a really popular and active group, with a big waiting list. But the generation of parents who grew it with me have moved on and it has left this really entitled and difficult bunch of parents who seem to think it is a service they are paying for and have no involvement. I struggle week on week to have enough leaders. The only person who really helps is my son who I helped start it for his peers and is now older!! This week I cancelled an event because after asking numerous times no one would help and I didn't have safe ratios. The ONLY comments I got were angry at me for messing up childcare planning and parents demanding part of their subs back because the session didn't run that week!!! I'm a good scout leader, I do a lot for the kids and I love it but even they seem to have a different attitude now. The area has become increasingly wealthy and I feel more and more that I'm providing after-school childcare rather than a meaningful activity that enriches children's lives. In another local town which is really much more deprived they are starting another group, they've got lots of parents volunteers and need an experienced leader. I am so, so tempted to jack it in with the group I've got (it would only carry on if a parent then picked it up) and go and work with this other group?

And, Menorca, if you can't/don't want to volunteer for things in life, that's OK. I don't think the OP is upset about that particularly. It's when those same people then complain or have a go at her when she IS volunteering for the benefit of THEIR kids that is becomes an issue

Agreed. That is appalling

Move to a unit you are happy at. I was a Rainbow/Guide leader for years. If you are a volunteer you need to enjoy it or you'll burn out and become resentful and end up quitting completely.
My boys were Beavers/Cubs/Scouts. I didn't often help because I was home educating them and this was their space without me. The leaders knew this, we did the occasional cross over activities (sometimes when one of us had a leader on holiday so we could share volunteers) shared info on good visitors/trips etc and I was clear that if they were ever short I just needed 15mins notice and I would stay. I'd tag along on outdoor stuff sometimes too as I didn't drive so wasn't worth going home and I would let them know so they could count me in numbers of needed.
Volunteer run units like this are community groups that need a community feeling to work.

I once went on a spate of badge earning with my group. We did 3 or 4 badges in a month and it was great. About 3 of the kids ended up with the sewn or glued to their uniforms!! The others... took them home and lost them

Scouts transformed my Ds’s lives.

Absolutely brilliant leaders, imaginative, dedicated, hard working.

We added extra to the subs, supported all the bake sales etc, helped out with special requests (being an ‘accident victim’ for 1st Aid training, stewarding a big parade etc).

Seeing parents muck in where they could was part of the development of civic participation. That group produced some extraordinary young people in a very non-leafy area.

Place your energies where they will
Make a difference, OP.

Bloody yoga diva!

YANBU. I do Guiding (talked into it by a friend when she was on minimal ratios) and Scouting (hit a leader crisis soon after DS started). I also spend part of 3 days in school plus regularly volunteer including RDing at junior parkrun. I do it because volunteering to do these things makes the world a nicer place to live in and opens opportunities for children as they grew up, and I saw it as repaying the extras that people like my teachers enabled me to access in my youth.

There's "I have no time", "I have no time" and "I have no time". When I was working FT, my 3&5 yo's spent over 12 hours out the house on Guiding night as they'd get picked up from childcare, and spend 20 mins in the car biding time as it wasn't worth heading home before going to the hall. Scouting/ Guiding leaders are normally busy "doers" even before the extras of their voluntary work. When I started with Scouting, I was accompanied by my youngest, but actually it was no harder dropping and staying than it was shunting him back and forth through the evening. Admittedly I'm of limited help to my oldest's Scouting unit due to clashes of different venues on the same time slot, but I am at least supporting their Group. (Sufficient notice to be able to organise them to different destinations would be helpful though... I'm not convinced that it's a great look when a critical parent is wearing the same necker as the leader...)

If you genuinely aren't able to support if your leader makes a request for help, talk to them, and they are supportive. If 80% do help out that's fine. One of my units does request parent helpers and we know who not to put on the list. We go for the allocate a night and let parents organise their own swaps approach.

Sadly, from experience the most obnoxious, entitled, demanding parents are the ones least likely to help and most likely to go ranting off up the chain.

Volunteering should be enriching. Go and do it in the community where they will understand the value of what they offer.

Go to the other group without a backward glance. The parents obviously think there is a big pool of people just desperate to give up their free time to look after their precious children. If they would rather let the group fold than help out one night a term then so be it. They’ll just move on to another group that gives them cut price child care until eventually there are no groups they can use unless they give something back.
I used to volunteer at a group not scouts/ brownies etc two evenings a week, training at weekends using annual leave for trips away spent my own money on resources, worked a full time jobs, kids, elderly sick parents and in-laws all good reasons used by other parents not to get involved. But the parents of the kids did nothing but complain about the activities, being asked to help , fundraising etc. I jacked it in still volunteer, cause i enjoy giving back to the community but do it for a different organisation on a more focussed basis where being a volunteer is appreciated, done it now in the new organisation for 3 years and will continue as long as I am able to.

I don't understand people who send their child to a group run by volunteers and then don't think to volunteer some of their own time. Why do people have to be asked to volunteer these days (so not volunteering at all).

I remember one evening we had making rafts on the riverside. Me and another mum with 20 10-13 year olds tying barrels and planks together. The dad who was on the parent rota sat on the river bank smiling indulgently at his PFB. Even when told 'Go and get those barrels out of the can' he got one out (we carried 3 each) then sat down again.

There are ways round if you are a single parent with younger children. If they are not too young they could possibly join you, if the leader agrees. Or you can work with another parent, so on your rota night another parent can babysit for you, and then you reciprocate the favour on their rota night.

If things like that are not possible ask if there are other ways you can help. I have previously mentioned fundraising some of which can be done from home. If you are crafty costumes are usually required for camps, or we sometimes take part in the local carnival so costumes etc are needed for that. Again some of that work can be done at home.

There are rarely any instances where a parent could not be a help in some way.

Surely if they are there to drop and pick up their children then parents aren't working full time during that time. Otherwise their child wouldn't be able to go. What are they doing doing that time?

I volunteered to help with my sons beaver group but it was tricky. I had dd who was only 3 at the time and I so it wasn't appropriate for her to come with me. I couldn't guarantee my dh would be home in time to look after her when I needed to go to beavers with ds. Dh is self employed and his hours are unpredictable.

I think some people would like to help but it involves juggling, then they are less inclined to do it.

DO IT ! Please

I closed my Scout troop this year due to falling numbers as parents wanted different nights so it wouldn't clash with dance/football/other activity the child wanted to try that term. Unfortunately we could only use the hall that single evening after cubs and beavers to facilitate sibling drop off and pick up, now there are no activities for that age group within a 20 mile radius (v rural) and parents are complaining about lack of opportunities for their kids - same story with people unwilling to help as too busy....small community, everyone knows who's on what groups. Mine is now full grown and a beaver leader herself in a deprived area where the group is really well supported and appreciated. I also work full time, care for my mum with dementia and study for my masters so not time rich. I stopped as I felt I wanted the group to run more than the parents did for their kids.

I also think you should change groups.

However, I think the groups should be up front about subs not covering costs and that parents are required to volunteer. I didn't realise either of those things when I signed DD up to Rainbows.

Maybe Guiding/Scouting should charge the going rate for a one hour after school activity and pay the leaders.

Another option is to give parents a discount if they volunteer (of course it's really that you pay more if you don't!) That's what a bike club I know of does to get sufficient race marshals.

Times change. Groups need to change with them. Being more realistic might get a better balance between demand for places and volunteers, too.

I’m a rainbow leader, at a group fortunate enough to have good parent engagement. So long as parents aren’t rude to me, all will be well.

However, I don’t stand for being treated badly. I’d stop offering my time in a New York minute if they got uppity. I value my time and myself too much to tolerate that.

It very much depends on the type of parents you get. Ours are mostly working parents, but they volunteer when asked and work together to arrange cover/pickups/drop offs. We also run our group late enough to mean most of the parents could theoretically help.

In contrast, a local group closed last year because none of the parents would help. None of them. Despite the fact that the majority didn’t work at all and could actually have helped.

OP - go to the other group. Clearly the parents you’ve got have no comprehension as to what Scouting and Guiding is about.

In terms of the subs paid - say you pay £35 per term - £105 per year. Of that, around £50
Is paid to head quarters/ district/ county to provide insurance/ training/ support/ admin to these roles/ teams. This leaves about £55 for the actual beavers. In our group we charge £10 per beaver for hall use (we have our hall which we hire out). Leaving c.£45. Roughly £1 per beaver per week; this is for all activities/ drinks/ badges/ scarf when they join etc.
It's all run on a shoe string!

If I was you OP @SimpleSaying1 I'd speak to your GSL - they could help with recruiting an assistant. There might be a cub leader, for example, locally who's looking to move, or someone on your waiting list who's keen?

The moaning is awful though and I do think there's a new wave of it in some parents these days, such a shame.

@SimpleSaying1 what are you going to do?

If I were you, I would switch groups.
I'm a Guide Leader and whilst many of our parents can't volunteer, quite a few do and most of them are lovely people who really value what their girls get out of it.
I can cope with the odd entitled parent but if they were all like that, however much I liked the kids I'd inclined to spend my efforts elsewhere.

I left after being harangued on the way to the bus for work by somebody whose husband earned over £85,000 basic incensed that her Darling Child had 'sat and done colouring' for three weeks on the trot and she wanted an immediate refund of her £6 subs for the half term. Actually, what she'd done was refuse to take part in the three physical activities and spent her time indoors with 1-2-1 supervision whilst she worked her way through the craft supplies like a child with chronic glitter deprivation --whilst farting the shittiest smelling farts in the world because she'd apparently been off sick from school for vomiting profusely all day. The Little Owl I'd come in to help out in the place of was undergoing Chemotherapy for breast cancer at the time - which everybody knew - and she was having a planned visit that day - which again, they all knew and had been told to stay off if they had any illness.

Fuck them. Go to the group that will appreciate your dedication.

Your time, energy and choice. Do where you'd be appreciated. And might even make a difference... Good luck!

I used to run a Beaver Colony. When parents signed up, it was made clear that they had to help on the parents rota once a term.

If they tried to get out of it, I told them to contact another parent to swap their session. In the letters at the start of the term I made it clear that if I could commit to ten+ sessions each term, I expected them to make their one meeting a term.

I never had a problem. They knew they had to do their duty, so they got on with it.

You have to be very clear in your expectations, or people will walk all over you. I had one parent who was consistently late picking up their child. I eventually got rather annoyed with him, and told him because he was late, he was making me late to pick up my own children from another activity, which was not on. He was never late again.

At our beavers group there is a parent rota once or twice a term for each child. I think that's entirely reasonable aren't there some horrible people around op xx

I'm with you op. I'm a beaver leader and there's one parent that talks to me like I'm a piece of dirt on her shoe. I regularly have to remind her that I'm a volunteer and I give my time freely.

I would ask for volunteers otherwise make it clear you will need to close the group.

Years ago when my DS was at beavers we had to sign up to a parents rota to help out. It worked out as about once a term. I got the impression that you couldn’t say no as it was a popular pack with a waiting list to join

So I gave my notice tonight. I'll carry on until Christmas and join new group in Jan. I was politely honest about why!!

Well done.