To ask DP to have a vasectomy

[shouldhavecalleditoatabix]

So a bit of background. DP and I have been together 14 years. I had a very early pregnancy and subsequent termination. Went on to have DD1 (13) and DD2 (9). We both now work full time and definitely do not want any more children. I adore babies and I love our children but moving from 2:4 to 2:5 means bigger house, car and change of life. We know those younger years are tough and we had both DG's on each side to help. We are thoroughly enjoying life with older DC's. Also DG's are now getting on a decade later and I know they won't feel able to be so involved in care of any subsequent babies so another would be really difficult in all aspects. I am also approaching 40 and acutely aware of the risks a later pregnancy will bring. We have talked and joked about DP having vasectomy and he's always agreed but never actually done it. Tonight I am 2 days late. I don't think I am pregnant because each previous time I have recognised symptoms almost immediately but I am tired of worrying about it when there is a simple solution. Tonight I broached the v word again and DP is happy to do it but never actually makes it a priority but I have taken it one step further and said 'no sex until he makes the appointment'. AIBU?

Apparently the side effects were considered too great for the males taking part. Side effects women are supposed to put up with for years so men can get their rocks off without having to do any of the contraceptive work.

What you are failing to consider are the ethical implications. The female pill is statistically safer than pregnancy so therefore the risk/benefits support a woman being on the pill rather than being pregnant. Men can't get pregnant so there are no risk/benefits for a man taking contraceptives so arguably any risks are too many because there are no health risks to the man of not taking contraceptives, only risks.

It's this that makes it difficult to get drugs that potentially cause harm with no benefits past ethics committees.

Not sure why the OP is getting the hard time she has. Her husband has every right to refuse contraceptive methods he's not comfortingly with, equally so is OP, it makes total sense for both of them to take ejaculating inside her without protection off the table. OP has taken sole responsibility for all those years, and has took the physical labour and serious risks that come with carrying and birthing a baby. People keep saying he has bodily autonomy and shouldn't be pressured into surgery he doesn't want, absolutely true, but the OP also has bodily autonomy and shouldn't be pressured into pumping more hormones into her body, of dealing with a termination or another childbirth if she does become pregnant again, if they both don't want to use any of the current contraceptive options fear of an unwanted pregnancy common sense is not to pressure the OP into submitting and doing more shit to her body just her dh can continue to ejaculate unprotected inside her but remove unprotected ejaculation as an option all together.

Complications with vasectomy is worry but serious complications come with female sterilisation, taking hormones, termination, childbirth. Why is the man's worries valid and should be respected but the woman's dismissed and she's told to get a coil (my mum got pregnant with one of those) because abstaining is emotional blackmail etc?

My own husband wasn't keen on vasectomy and I was refused sterilisation myself because apparently at 34 I didn't know my own mind and might decide I want a second. I've used various hormonal contraceptives, the pill, the implant etc etc, dh often said he'd get a vasectomy (without me asking) but it was something he never got to, when I found a breast lump and had surgery to remove it, I was told they'd found an extra lump which wasn't cancer yet but would have developed into breast cancer and that with the family history of breast cancer on my mums side I'm at a higher risk and was advised to stop the pill immediately.

The very next day after my results my husband phoned to get the snip organised off his own back, we didn't have unprotected sex until he got the all clear and he used condoms the few times we did have PIV but he couldn't relax and would either withdraw even with a condom or we just didn't have PIV.

The PP who implied abstaining due to worry about unwanted pregnancy means the person never liked sex and must have felt they were being raped is ridiculous. I've been raped and worrying about getting pregnant is fuck all like being raped.

I didn't suggest oral hormones. I suggested condoms, diaphragm, implant, IUD, abstinence -- and acknowledged that vasectomy could be an acceptable last resort

The implant is a hormonal based contraception .

Men can't get pregnant so there are no risk/benefits for a man taking contraceptives so arguably any risks are too many because there are no health risks to the man of not taking contraceptives, only risks

Yeah but they sure as fuck complain when they are faced with an unwanted pregnancy. A pill that gave a man agency over his own sperm would be helpful, no?

Yes, you can, Mum, just keep repeating. If they get pushy you use 'I don't consent to that. I'm happy with my contraception choice. It's not up for discussion.'

ethan, use of synthetic hormones over years can have permanent effects, such as increased cancer risk. They are now also now known to induced depression in some users. Having foreign objects placed into the body can have serious complications, I had a IUD that perforated my uterus and I had to have surgery and I got infection after that caused scarring.

Great. So a man says it's fine I'm on the pill so you don't need to worry - and that's reassuring is it? How many women who absolutely do not want to get pregnant would be reassured by this? If he forgets to take it, or it doesn't work for some reason (see a of the contraception failures reported on here) who suffers the consequences? It isn't the man is it? So then what do you do? Does the woman also use contraception in order to protect herself, which kind of renders the male contraceptive useless doesn't it and doesn't solve the problems of women not wanting to carry the responsibility for contraception.

Of course the op can refuse to have sex. Her partner can also refuse to remain in an abstinent relationship.

@dontalltalkatonce

Calling the hormones "synthetic" makes them sound rather scary. People take synthetic insulin, eat synthetic vitamin C and consume vast quantities of synthetic sucrose. That last one can have very nasty consequences for your long term health I am told.

Yes, having an implant "can" have serious complications, but probably not. Vasectomy "can" leave you dead from necrotizing fasciitis, but probably not. These are really rare situations. Nexplanon has an xray reflective coating so you can check if you've implanted it properly. The amount of hormones the implant releases are safer than taking hormones orally -- although it is true that for medicine they are required to list every possible problem whether or not there are any specific cases observed. (They aren't required to do that for vasectomy, at least in the USA.)

The main issue with the implant, so I have heard, is that it may have side effects while it is in. That's bad, but it can almost always be removed. This is different from vasectomy, which can never be removed.

I had a IUD that perforated my uterus and I had to have surgery and I got infection after that caused scarring.

Again, I don't want to say that implants and IUDs have no risks. They do. But I'm comparing them to surgically damaging part of your body enough that it stops functioning. If your IUD slips and perforates your uterus, as far as I understand it this can be corrected and you will heal. The whole point of post vasectomy pain syndrome is that you cannot heal from it. It would be as if you went and had an IUD put in with the understanding that it would be impossible to ever remove it whether or not it caused pain every day.

My husband had a vasectomy a year or so after our second child was born. His idea. I'd have been about 40. He'd have been about 50.

He said the worst thing was the smell of burning flesh! Don't know if they still burn rather than snip (it was over 20 years ago). He was a bit uncomfortable for a few days, but otherwise nothing to worry about.

So a man says it's fine I'm on the pill so you don't need to worry - and that's reassuring is it?

Please do show me where I said that? I think when a pregnancy is a disaster several methods of contraception are sensible. Female pill, male pill and possibly barrier methods would be a good level of protection.

I think we need to move away from a society where the only real long-acting methods of contraception are solely the responsibility of the female.

But then I’ve been spoilt by relationships with decent men who certainly felt it was as much their responsibility as mine.

If your IUD slips and perforates your uterus, as far as I understand it this can be corrected and you will heal

Now come on dontalltalkatonce, your experience wasn’t that bad. A man has spoken and told you so it must be true.

I had scarring and adhesions, ethan, that hurt every month until I experienced menopause. Thee was no way to correct that, as even a hysterectomy would result in more scarring and adhesions. I got peritonitis, a potentially life-threatening condition, and my cut has never been the same. Anything else, with your vast knowledge of gynaecology, you'd like to mansplain to me, like this little gem:

Calling the hormones "synthetic" makes them sound rather scary. People take synthetic insulin, eat synthetic vitamin C and consume vast quantities of synthetic sucrose.

Wow, you'd think you are assuming this little woman is so ignorant there's no way on Earth she could possibly realise the differences among synthetic female hormones and ingesting sugar, ascorbic acid or needing to use a synthetic hormone to treat a potentially lethal disease.

Sory, my gut has never been the same.

@JacquesHammer

Now come on dontalltalkatonce, your experience wasn’t that bad. A man has spoken and told you so it must be true.

That's garbage discourse and you should know better. What I said was reasonable and me being a man has nothing to do with it at all. If she is still in daily pain from her IUD complication she can correct my wrong but honest assumption.

You would never accept it if I said women were incapable of reasoning about vasectomy on the basis of their gender. Hold yourself to the same standard.

You make a lot of assumptions, ethan, and like most mansplainers, use presumption as a pretext to convince yourself that you are entirely reasonable and those who disagree are irrational and therefore 'garbage' in discussion (at least have the courtesy to swot up on the colloquialism of the country whose sites you frequent).

Well, I can see that we have moved past dialog and into the sexist cancel culture phase of the conversation, so I'll take my leave.

@ethanfischer the problem I see with your arguments is that because a vasectomy caused issues for you (which are awful and I'm sorry that happened to you) then we should consider absolutely every other option over and above vasectomy because it carries a risk to the man. Except women here are telling you they too have suffered in childbirth, in miscarriages and, importantly, using the other methods that you deem preferable to risking a man's ability to get an erection.

You're unwilling to accept that there are differing risks attached to every method and the reason you consider vasectomy worst is because of your experience. Vasectomy is deemed safe because the risks are low. You were one of the small percent but that doesn't change the risk.

You are selfishly arguing you're experience is worse than other experiences because it happened to you. And whilst it's sad you aren't physically attracted to your wife you experience something women go through frequently after child birth. With torn vags and raging hormones bleakly nipples and exhaustion they don't want to put out and they don't feel like sexy bed goddesses. But hey, having babies is still what we do.

YANBU, threads like this must pop up every month.

Female sterilisation is far more invasive and risky plus you have dealt with pregnancies, birth, maybe breastfeeding and also contraception for years. It’s your turn to have a break now and his turn to be proactive. It’s sadly all a man can do bar condoms which, let’s face it, nobody really likes.

I think we need to move away from a society where the only real long-acting methods of contraception are solely the responsibility of the female.

Biologically the risks of pregnancy fall to women so the physical benefits of avoiding pregnancy affect only women. There are no physical benefits of avoiding pregnancy for men.

What on earth is the point of a couple using male and female contraception plus condoms? So double the cost to the NHS and 2 people being exposed to potential side effects.

But then I’ve been spoilt by relationships with decent men who certainly felt it was as much their responsibility as mine.

And how did they show this decency? By using condoms? Which the op and others on here have discounted, or do all of your partners agree to have a vasectomy? Otherwise I can't really see what great things they did in regards to contraception.

In the ops case it seems that her husband doesn't want to have a vasectomy. Maybe he is concerned about complications, maybe he doesn't want to remove his ability to have another child. Is that wrong? Should men be able to coerce women into being sterilised against their will?

I don't think anyone is wrong for considering serious complications before having surgery. I know only too well how devastating that can be. I had a, on paper, minor procedure done. Risk of serious complication was 1:10,000 and was barely touched upon during consent. I was that 1:10,000. I now have a lifelong disability and have had to have a very complex and invasive treatment that I will have at regular intervals for life. So a 1:10 risk seems way too high to me.

Vasectomy is deemed safe because the risks are low. You were one of the small percent but that doesn't change the risk.

Is 1 in 10 low risk? I don't think so personally.

It isn't unreasonable to ask him if he'd ever consider it. YABVVVVVVU if you go any further than that and try to push for him to have a vasectomy.

And whilst it's sad you aren't physically attracted to your wife you experience something women go through frequently after child birth. With torn vags and raging hormones bleakly nipples and exhaustion they don't want to put out and they don't feel like sexy bed goddesses. But hey, having babies is still what we do.

Those aren't permanent effects though are they? Suffering permanent nerve damage or ed isn't something that heals with time.

Personally, I wanted to have children and do I willingly accepted any potential risks to my body. I wouldn't expect anyone else to risk their own health for my benefit.

No sex until he makes the appointment.

Not 'no sex until you've had the procedure and your samples come back clear' or 'no penetrative sex, but we can do other stuff'. It's right there in the first post. She's happy to have sex with him if he simply makes the appointment. These aren't the words of someone scared of having sex in case she falls pregnant. She's withholding sex to pressurise her partner into having an operation he seemingly doesn't want. If she were a man that would be called emotional abuse.

. I wouldn't expect anyone else to risk their own health for my benefit.

Well, I do.

In as much as my DH 'expects' me to risk my health for his benefit.

I had to risk my health, because we agreed to have children together.

In return, I didn't actually have to expect him to risk his health, because it was his choice, his decision.

Yes, there is a 1:10 risk from vasectomy. And these threads guarantee a show from the 1s.

There's also a 9:10 risk that everything will be just fine.

And the inconvenience fact remains, that most men who have vasectomies fall into this category.

Men go off for vasectomies every day and the vast majority emerge unscathed, or will very soon be so.

Not one of us is labouring under the delusion that it's risk free. We know it's not. We've gone into situations that present a much greater risk to our own health, ourselves.

Those aren't permanent effects though are they? Suffering permanent nerve damage or ed isn't something that heals with time.

You are seriously uninformed as to the long lasting (and yes, permanent) damage that childbirth not uncommonly has on women and sadly, very indicative of a cultural which minimising the damage childbirth and pregnancy and contraception not too infrequently does to a woman's body, hence people like ethan cry foul (cancel culture) when it's pointed out the pain and permanent damage are entirely part and parcel with pregnancy, childbirth and so many forms of contraception which are available to women.

My dh had one in March, successful and not overly uncomfortable. He had it Friday pm went back to work on light duties (has a heavy liftinf manual job) Monday. Bit of technicolour bruising, minor swelling, gone in a couple of weeks nothing he couldn't manage with paracetamol.

Definately no regrets. He was happy to be proactive in our choices as due to having cancer I cannot use any contraception and the risk if yet more surgery wasn't a great idea.

He sounds lovely @Minxmumma .

That sort of behaviour from men is my bare minimum (I know that makes me an absolute witch in some people's eyes), but it absolutely doesn't stop me recognising it, and being appreciative of it when it happens.