to expect my FIL to pay what he owes!

[73Sunglasslover]

My FIL lives by himself. He's elderly but in reasonable health most of the time. He is quite well off (over 300K in the bank we think) but doesn't spend much as he prefers a quiet life and simple things.

The issue is that he asks us to get things - like DIY stuff so my OH can fix things which are broken when we visit (we don't mind doing this) and presents for the kids (he says can you put £50 in a card for them from me) - but without prompting will usually not pay us back. My OH and I have completely joint finances. I bring home twice as much as him (irrelevant really, but just for context).

He is generous at other times, e.g. he gave us £1000 each (me and OH for Xmas last year). My OH says that because of this we can't ask him to pay us back as it's too awkward. But I say that we put that cash into the mortgage so don't actually have it to give to the kids and anyway he gave it as a gift, not a fund for us to hold for him to spend when he wants/ needs to.

I find FIL really difficult. He's used to thinking only of him, so for example when we visit, it takes around 6 hours to drive to his. He doesn't get milk or bread in for us or any other food. After we arrive I have to go to the supermarket to stock up on basics. His wife died a couple of years ago and he's been trained to be inept (or lazy??) around the house so I don't expect him to cook us meals but to order an extra pint of milk and buy enough bread for us all to have breakfast is really no big ask and certainly within his capabilities. I can't figure out whether my OH is being unreasonable or whether my frustration at being expected to join my OH's family in treating my FIL like someone who really can't do anything for anyone else is clouding my thinking about this.

YABU - yes it's unreasonable to ask your FIL to reimburse you for small sums of money when he's generous with presents sometimes.

YANBU - FIL should reimburse you and if he doesn't do it without prompting it's reasonable to expect OH to prompt him.

So if he's given the children gifts whilst you've actually been there then perhaps the money owed is forgetfulness. When he says he'll sponsor DH £50 or asks you to pop £50 in a card, maybe he has every intention of settling it up but as your DH won't mention it he forgets. He clearly got the extra bread and milk when asked (once). So just ask in future instead of building it up in your head as a gripe. On the other hand you clearly don't like the man very much so that'll be colouring your judgement a lot.

86!! U only visit 4 times a year and are complaining about petty things.... I would be mortified allowing my children to accept 50 quid from their grandfather.. Its too much and means nothing.. Stop being so fixated on money.. Its sad

@Daphne65

Can I ask a genuine question about this. Would you get the children to give the £50 back if he hands it to them? and say 'no, I won't put it in a card for them, it's too much' for their birthdays? I've not thought that was too much given that he can afford it but it sounds like you see things differently?

86 is quite old even for someone who is fit and well.

I remember my mother in law, when she was in her eighties,would give us money as gifts sometimes which was lovely. However if either of us did anything for her that cost money she would give me what she owed straight away but when she mentioned to my husband, he'd say, "Oh don't worry about that now" - and she'd forget! That happened a few times, I remember him wondering why I got money she owed me and he didn't :-), quite funny really but it was his fault for not taking it when offered.

73Sunglasslover, next time he asks you to put money in a card for grandchldren just say it would be better (more special) if he chose and bought the card and stuffed it himself. You said he goes to the supermarket a couple of times a week and all supermarkets sell cards so that shouldn't be a problem. If he isn't actually going to see grandchild on that day, he could post it with a cheque (he would probably think cash sent by post is not safe) - most kids have some sort of bank or savings account, or he could make the cheque payable to you and you give the child the cash.

Regarding him not paying for DIY stuff, next time he asks your husband could say that he really needs the money at the moment, then he won't feel awkward reminding his dad if it is forgotten.

Bluerussian

Thank you. Yes it is old. Properly old. I know he needs allowances made and can't be expected to act - physically or mentally - like a younger man. I'd like my OH to say something like that but he won't. It sounds like you agree with me that it's not really a big deal to say something like that. I can't understand why it's such a big deal for OH to just ask for the cash. A couple of times, to be fair, I've persuaded him to and the world actually appears not to have ended. Good advice, thanks.

I smell jealousy Daphne65

@Daphne65

Ive tried to bring up all 3 kids not to value money over other things. I would say to grandad it's too much get them a small thing. All 3 of mine who are grown up now are all lovely generous, non materialistic, kind adults.

Jealous of what Bellybutton??

Ok, I overstated the sums a bit 😁

I think the dynamic is the problem more than the cash involved. Ideally your OH would be able to lightly say, "Oh you owe us £100 for birthdays etc, Dad" and get "So, I do son, here's the cash to cover it" in response.

At that age, does your FIL tend to have fistfuls of bank notes around all the time? I can imagine he's better at cash than bank transfers. If so, totting it up and then getting it off him when you see him would make sense. Next time he asks you to put money in a card, could you reply that that's what you'll do? It seems that a large part of the problem is that there's no arrangement or plan in place for you to be reimbursed. Very awkward.

And I'm not ignoring that the whole relationship sounds very awkward. And unfortunately, this is probably the easy bit as it'll likely get even harder as he gets older.

YABU

Ive tried to bring up all 3 kids not to value money over other things. I would say to grandad it's too much get them a small thing. All 3 of mine who are grown up now are all lovely generous, non materialistic, kind adults.

But he doesn't want to get them anything as it's easier for him to give cash. So would you give some of it back or all of it? My kids don't expect these gifts. They're also generous and non-materialistic. I don't think getting £50 at xmas gets in the way of that. Did you kids get any presents when they were children?

I imagine your OH feels guilty by the way. Guilty for living far away, guilty for not doing more, guilty cos conversation is awkward, guilty asking for money...

Or he might not at all!

YABVU. I buy the presents for my DGF (I don't know my dad, so this is this father figure in my life and I adore him) every year for my child without expecting anything in return because he has no idea what to get etc and gets panicked at the thought, his memory also sucks as he is getting on a abit now. Occasionally he will send money our way but it's certainly not expected, in fact, I often tell him not to do it. What is wrong with doing something nice on behalf of a family member, just because instead of expecting something back all the time? It's family, not a transactional relationship ffs.

Ok, I overstated the sums a bit 😁

yes but the principle was sound! yes I think the problem is no plan for reimbursement and OH feels like it's too big a deal to just ask. And we have joint finances so he's making a decision for me which I'm not happy with as it feels like this is a small part of the enabling of his dad which everyone is signed up to.

I despair at how entitled people are these days. Poor old guy.

I imagine your OH feels guilty by the way. Guilty for living far away, guilty for not doing more, guilty cos conversation is awkward, guilty asking for money...

Maybe he does. I'll ask him. He obviously left there to move a long way away so there's definitely the potential to feel guilty.

Also lol at Daphne. Handing gifts back is rude. Your children should accept graciously, be it £50, a fiver or a bag of mint imperials.

Saying £50 is too much is also a material judgement. Just a holier than thou kind.

What is wrong with doing something nice on behalf of a family member, just because instead of expecting something back all the time? It's family, not a transactional relationship ffs.

We do nice things for him. We don't want anything back for that. But does that mean when he says 'I'll sponsor you' or 'can you put £50 into the kids card for me' we should understand that this comes out of our bank account? I can't understand your logic there.

Telling the OP to transport milk in an ice pack on a 6 hour car journey is petty. Telling her to treat a Christmas gift as a petty cash fund is also petty. This whole thread and most of the response are petty!

OP. The guy is old and dare I say it, a man. He knows that his son, wife and grandchildren are coming and he's probably not thinking about playing host as his mind doesn't go that far. Unless your kids are unable to walk or seriously ill, I'm sure you can stop at a shop on the way there for some essentials. One of you can nip in while the tired kids wait in the car if needed. Since he is putting you up, arriving with some items seems the nice thing to do. As for the birthday money thing, he probably just forgets. You said 'unless prompted' he doesn't repay it. He needs a reminder because well, he is older and doesn't have the sharp mind he maybe once had.

You're right, it isn't relevant that your DH earns less than you. He's 6 hours away from his elderly father that lost his wife and relies on his neighbours for support and you're gurning over £50 in a card here and there that he'll repay if you ask and milk and bread! You resent this man for some reason and I don't know why. Count yourself lucky that you don't have a fil with dementia or a serious illness that would need round the clock care which his savings and house would chew through in a couple of years and you'd have to fund his care from your own pocket. I doubt you would given the attitude already.

Your husband has one living parent left. Are you really going to cause friction over this? You begrudge spending a few pounds getting some bits and doing him a favour by putting money in a card that you can just remind him to pay back. We are meant to make allowances for the elderly and look after them. He is certainly looking after you and your family by ensuring that your DH gets a hefty and healthy inhertience. Cut the guy some slack and accept that he isn't much of a host and has a bad memory. His wife probably did a lot of these things and he's adjusting

Just text him and remind him to get milk bread etc. My MIL is a complete tight arse but even she has the basics at her home when we turn up.

He's 86??? Sorry OP but you are being MASSIVELY unreasonable. You haven't answered my point that I would never arrive empty handed while staying with relatives stands - I'd always bring basics plus chocolates etc - he's bloody 86 FGS and gave you and OH £1000 - yet you're quibbling over what amounts to a few pounds?

Do the poor man a favour and stop accepting such disproportional gifts whilst quibbling about a loaf of bread and milk!

Not holier than anyone as an athiest ha ha I would have had discreet talk to family members who wanted to give my kid qghis amount of cash. 5 or 10 in a card if money is easier. Of course my kids had presents but not expensive things or hard cash. Now as very young adults they buy or make the most thoughtful gifts (not expensive but personal and thoughtful) for my special big birthday they made an amazing video of my life aka "this is your life" involved lots of effort, team work, skills and involvement of others but meant the more than any designer handbag!
I digress... U are being unfair on your FIL he hasn't long left on this planet... Cut him some slack

I wonder what visits, Christmas and gifts giving was like when MIL was alive? From your description, I've inferred that she was a generous, thoughtful woman. (I may not be right, of course.) If she was generous and thoughtful, I bet she was also a welcoming host and would have had basics ready for your arrival, at a minimum.

If visits used to be like that, then this new world where FIL does not appear thoughtful and welcoming of you in the same must be very sad for you all. I would imagine it compounds the grief and makes visits feel somewhat lonely.

I don't know what solutions to suggest when it comes to the hospitality. If your husband won't ask his dad to get on an extra pint of milk to see you through til morning, it seems like a very awkward situation. It sucks, but unfortunately, you may just need to find a way to let it go. How about you build in a stop within an hour of fil where you can get a few basics - one of you can pop in really quickly while kids have a loo break or sleep or something. I think that having those basics in the house when you get up in the morning will help - just because you're not focusing on needing to rush out first thing.

I think YANBU about the money. Its not necessarily the sums involved, but the lack of consideration. It could make life very difficult for a family with small kids to have extra expenses. You already gift him as much time as you can, cook for him and do things he enjoys. From what you've described, you're extremely generous, considerate and loving towards him. The gift is irrelevant, IMO. I think the pp idea of a bank account your DH can access for those types of expenses is a great idea - not sure I see your DH broaching the topic though.

I think you are being petty and a bit wierd too

Surely you just grab some milk and bread at a garage or service station close to the end of your trip. It would take a few minutes. I assume you stop a few times during the trip anyway. You are making a huge mountain out of a molehill with this part of your OP
He probably thinks you would prefer to grab your own stuff anyway.

I also think you are being petty about the rest of the money. I wouldn’t dream of asking my parents to reimburse me for bits and bobs and that’s without them giving me a massive Xmas present.

It’s your husbands Dad so I’d let him do what he wants. If he doesn’t want to make your Dad pay for DIY stuff or for the kids presents then leave it up to him. There is no need for you to get involved or to worry about it at all.