Relocation to San Francisco

[Lizbiz89]

My oh has been approached for a job in San Francisco. It's kind of come out of the blue which has shocked me slightly. We have 2 young children (2.7 and 6 month).

I'm obviously trying to be very open minded about it but I'm very hesitant. Mainly because we have a lot of family/friends close by which we will lose being so far away.

However on the other hand San Francisco is a lovely part of the world and I feel like my children may have a better lifestyle growing up in a warmer climate and beaches close by.

Does anyone have any experience of moving to the US? Would love to hear other people's opinions and experiences.

When looking at costs look into - my three friends in US all have lower living standards than they’d had in the UK, and their H’s are on £160k+, having previously been on £100k ish in UK.

Health insurance for the whole family is the biggie. Utilities and food also a lot.

They say extra curriculars and childcare are around triple UK costs.

@Loopytiles do your friends live in central SF or on the outskirts? Everything you have said is extremely important to take into account. My oh is hopefully looking for a similar salary, although it's hard to say at this stage as they haven't negotiated yet.

They live elsewhere in the US, on the outskirts of large cities.

Suggest investigating all the costs.

@looptiles
their H’s are on £160k+, having previously been on £100k ish in UK. Where were they living in the UK - 100K doesn't give you a lavish lifestyle in London.
My friends seem to have a similar lifestyle to their UK lives. They lived in a very nice commuter town near London and now they live in a very nice commuter town near SF. We don't talk about the details but we have visited them and they are very comfortable but they would say they are the poorest people they know because most of their friends are properly wealthy.

An issue in one friend’s negotiations was that the employer would pay for health insurance for the employee only, not the family, and for a family of 5 health insurance cost $1500 a month and excluded certain things.

They were living in home counties with the H working in London. Didn’t have a lavish lifestyle, but more lavish than they could afford stateside.

My friends say similar, some of their US friends are far wealthier.

Taxation differs in the USA and by state
Property ownership costs are different

You cant just look at rental costs and think that looks reasonable. It all has to be in context.

My oh is hopefully looking for a similar salary, although it's hard to say at this stage as they haven't negotiated yet.

A similar salary to what he earns in the UK?

The SF area does have a lovely smell since the legalisation of marijuana

what my rights will be with the children.

Not sure I understand what you mean by this, but the bottom line is that by going there, you are dependant on his say so when it comes to moving back - cutting both ways, and no you can't get some sort of agreement that if things were to go wrong you could come back with the children. Well, you could, with him - but if he chose to disregard it there's not much you could do. Bottom line - once they're resident in the US, and they would be - in school, etc. - you could NOT bring the m back to the UK without his consent.

So -

It goes brilliantly for him, he loves the job, you hate it and are miserable. You say you've had enough - he refuses. You're stuck.

It goes wrong for him, he hates it - you make friends and love it - it's his job you're out there for so he can unilaterally decide you're all coming home whether you want to or not.

He is working - meeting new people, caught up in a whole new life. You are at home with babies. He works long hours. Lots of pressure, as you want support from him as you are now doing it without your circle of friends and family. He feels pressure to put in the hours and prove himself in new job. Things are strained betwen you, he meets someone else and something happens. Ok. So whereas in the UK you could tell him to fuck off - here, you are stuck. You can't leave with the children, he won't give you permission to go. You don't have enough money to move out. You probably couldn't even move out and separate as visa requirements might mean that you have to be together - a particularly horrific move would be him informing authorities you've separated and your visa being revoked. He has the power.

Basically, this kind of move when you have small children creates a very, very unequal balance of power. It might be ok, but if it were ever to develop into a situation where it wasn't ok, you'd be fucked and he'd hold all the cards. That in itself is an issue, by gonig, you put your welfare in his hands.

I would never put myself in that position.

My company's HQ is in Silicon Valley and I was there recently for work and spent some time in San Francisco. Two things, many of the google etc engineers live in grotty RVs by the side of the road in Palo Alto, that's how insane housing costs are. Secondly, San Francisco is a really, really messed up city, I really dont think you would want to live right in the city. I'm from London and have travelled widely and I have never seen such deprivation and severe drug/mental health/homeless issues as I did there a few weeks ago. The city is filthy and desperate, and its very hard to reconcile as you walk around it with your expensive phone, coming from Silicon Valley down the road where there is such wealth. Even in Palo Alto there was a lot of homelessness. What I saw in SF will stay with me for a long time. It's far worse than anything I saw in London in the 90s, or ever. It's only the second city where I've felt unsafe walking around during the day, the other being downtown Dar Es Alam in Tanzania. I'm not, or wasn't anti drugs, but everyone is stoned and the smell of marijuana was everywhere. I dont think its been good for SF. I wouldn't take young kids into that environment.

Im sure there are lovely areas outside SF but there is no way I'd go on a UK salary as you clearly need a lot of money for a nice lifestyle there.

I'm not sure I'd take young kids

Thanks for all the advice. The salary will be a lot more than the uk salary but I guess it's all relative when you're living in a much more expensive place. Don't think we can make many decisions until he's negotiated with them. Looks like he will be in talks with them for weeks as well.

We live in a different area of the USA so can't comment on SF.
But we have talked about moving to a local contract and reckon it would need to be double the UK one to keep living standards.
Cost of living is pretty high, utilities are at least double as are mobile phones and internet. Food costs for decent quality food are very high. Taxes in decent areas are high but without them schools are terrible.
Don't regret coming but it isn't a particularly cheap country.

No way in hell would I move anywhere where I couldn’t leave with the DC in the event of separation/divorce.

DH turned down a job on around $210k plus bonus in Southern California, because of the much higher cost of housing, if that helps?

Interesting thread though!

@FizzyGreenWater too right.

Father's rights is a huge in every state; the men are pissed at being left, pissed at being divorced, pissed at paying alimony and pissed at paying child support are politically taking back parental rights. They've been undermining children's rights with Father's right for year's and are taking kids away from mothers where there's a split.
The more 'custody' they get the less everything they pay, plus the cherry on the top is to send a signal to all women that they'll be punished for daring to leave etc. Most women think it can't happen to them until it does.

The courts judges, lawyers male and female are legitimising it. Babies as young as 12 months are being put on a plane every 2 weeks to be with "Dad". Its a real scandal and any woman going into a situation where the bloke has all the power had better be afraid.

Not saying he's not a nice hubby but if I had all these facts I would never put myself in that position either..

... Plus the guns. I mean school shooting drills in every school, because shooters might walk in. When a country shoots babies to death in cold blood and nothing changes you have to ask yourself is it really worth it?!

OP, if you check Fremont elementary school ratings, looks like there are lots with 9/10 scores. That's really great - and reassuring, I hope.

It is a very affordable city (as far as that is possible around here) so a good choice. Quiet for the most part, as it is a bedroom (commuter) city. Good BART lines to city, SFO etc.

I would not rule this out.

lastly, take a look at Numbeo - it is quite good at comparing cost of living in different places.

- Numbeo Fremont, CA v. London

@2018SoFarSoGreat thanks for that website, it's a real help. I will keep looking at Fremont then.

I used to go to Sam Francisco regularly but it’s changed a lot in recent years. I have no desire to go back.

The homelessness problem is massive. Really don’t underestimate this. It is impossible to avoid and there is a really big problem with drug addiction, especially opioids. It’s makes for a very unpleasant environment.

It’s also I believe sky expensive. Have a look at rental prices. It makes London look cheap.

I married an American and moved to Alaska in the 70s. Loved every minute of it. Visited San Francisco many times and enjoyed it tremendously. However, I wouldn't want to live there because of the threat of 'The Big One'. A major earthquake is overdue according to the experts. We had our fair share of tremblers in Alaska and the end of the San Andreas fault ran in front of my waterfront house. It is definitely something to take into consideration I'm afraid.

Oooo I lived in Alaska too, Alleycat! But in the nineties. And experienced my first quake there. And bears. And moose. And skiing. V exciting and quirky place to live.

Friends have recently moved there with small DC. They live in Los Gatos which is very expensive but has good schools. They are having a blast. The DH works and she can't, that's probably the major downside for her