To ask supporters of porn to read this

[SmileEachDay]

meaww.com/missing-teen-adult-video-pornhub-modelhub-snapchat-periscope

A missing 15 year old girl was spotted in videos hosted by Pornhub. Those of you who are “ok” with porn - are you “ok” with this?

The sentence the man involved in making the videos is for another thread, but is shocking.

If porn had greater regulation, requiring ID checks before uploading to pornhub and contracts required every act to be detailed Inna contract which was signed in the presence of a psychiatrist to confirm that the actress (because I'm guessing you're not too concerned about the men involved) understood what it would entail and didn't exhibit signs of durress, would you be ok with porn?

It is extraordinary how invested people are in defending pornography.

If I went in for the sort of argument the apologists use, I might suggest they were worried that without porn they wouldn’t be able to orgasm. And that wanking is the only sexual activity available to them.
But I don’t. So I will continue to wonder.

I'm disgusted that people are comparing sex work to working in a nail bar or picking fruit.

The issue with nail bars is the working conditions, pay and circumstances under which the employee is there. There is nothing wrong with the job, it's a perfectly fine job to have that many people choose to go into themselves.

The issue with sex work is the actual job. It's selling your body, it's letting people use you for money. It is not just performing a task like picking fruit. It's having thing inserted into your most private areas.

They are not comparable.

Some disingenuous arguments on both sides of this debate

A significant part of porn is definitely unsavory, and i don't see anyone normal defending that

A significant part of it's detraction is puritanism and its an easy label to apply to it's detractors

Accusing either side of being one or the other is an easy way of ignoring the nuances of the argument

There is an element of online sexual exploitation which doesn't get nearly enough airtime. There are websites which are chock-a-block with videos of teenage boys wanking into their webcams, clearly thinking that they are 'connecting' with a girl somewhere, when in fact they are being strung along by a bot and recorded without their knowledge. These are ordinary boys in the privacy of their own bedrooms, and they are internet porn stars without even realising it.

@lessthanzero I'm interested in this idea that I sold my body. Last time I checked, I very much was still in possession of the same one I was issued at birth, all autonomy and functionality reasonably intact, albeit wearing a bit now that I'm in my 40's!

I did sell explicit images of my body, and the right to those images, under an agreed legal contract.
I did sell my time in producing those images, again under an agreed legal contract. Those things? Both sold. Absolutely. No longer own them in exchange for money, duly reported to HMRC.

Letting people use me for money? Yes, I suppose that's true in the sense that the images have been sold and resold. I know you were referring to the sex depicted in the images, but that gets problematic in ways I could bother to describe if I thought for a heartbeat anyone was actually interested in what goes into making porn, but that really isn't what you want to get at here, I don't believe.

And I definitely understand that the experience I had was not everyone's experience (and that I am a person on the Internet so despite every word of this being truth I'm sure it's being met with a hefty dose of scepticism). My experience in the early 2000's would be almost unrecognisable now in terms of how the industry has changed from a paid to a free model for sure -I just wanted to get into this idea that my body was at some point "sold" - at what point was that and how does that idea fit with my experience?

But as the main porn apologists on this thread appear to be men who are enthusiastic consumers and a pornographer

I am a woman.
And a supporter of (properly regulated) porn.

@Lessthanzero
The point is that there are plenty of unpleasant jobs that people are happy to do. I had a friend who spent a bit of time as a support worker for people with special mental health requirements.

The reality of the situation was that she worked with a lot of old people and sometimes would need to help them clean up after defaecating over themselves. I don't think you'd be able to get me to do that for any money, but it's a fairly low paid job anyway.

Some people love working with and caring for babies. The thought of cleaning someone else's child's vomit or poo makes me cribgem

I can think of circumstances where I might have sex for money and in many cases it's very well paid, considering the barrier for entrt. It's not my first choice, but neither is the above (or what I'm currently paid to do, for that matter). If I thought I could make decent money as a cam model, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Sitting at home in my underwear is how I spend most of my late weekday hours anyway.

Different people have different thresholds. I wouldn't tell anyone they couldn't work in a care home just because I wouldn't want to do it.

“ I am a woman.
And a supporter of (properly regulated) porn.”

Talk to me about how proper regulation is going to be achieved.

The issue with nail bars is the working conditions, pay and circumstances under which the employee is there. There is nothing wrong with the job, it's a perfectly fine job to have that many people choose to go into themselves

No.
The issue with nail bars is the workers are often trafficked; they were frequently tricked as to what the job would be like (just like women trafficked for sex), subjected a long and difficult and dangerous journey sometimes with fatal consequences as evidenced by the poor people who lost their lives in the lorry in Essex recently.

Once here they are housed in unsanitary, dangerous conditions with little to no pay so no chance of ever escaping or making a better life for themselves, sometimes starved, there are often beatings involved, sometimes sexual abuse as well, the chemicals they are working with extremely toxic and dangerous and they are ill protected from them and suffer health problems as a result.

I saw an interesting angle to the “sex work is just like any other job” thing the other day.

If it’s like any other job, should you be required to do it if you’re on benefits, and have your benefits removed if you refuse?

How would that work with consent?
How would that work with bodily autonomy?

Or, is it different to other jobs?

Well I know people who work in nail bars that aren’t like that at all- they are well paid, have all their rights respected and they love their jobs.
Therefore, I am perfectly happy to have my nails done in the nearest nail bar to my house.

Talk to me about how proper regulation is going to be achieved.

• An end to video uploading sites, all porn paid for and made by regulated companies operating under much stricter rules

• Much more in depth checks as to prospective performers history so vulnerable women (and men) with complex mental health issues and/or a history of abuse are not hired for that line of work

• Far more severe punishments for those found guilty of trafficking (for any industry) and using women in the sex trade

• Far more severe punishments for those hiring/using underage women

• Extensive work and education done from early on in primary school to change the still prevalent sexist views that men love sex and always want it with anyone and men who enjoy sex are normal men and men who have sex with many different partners are 'studs', 'sex gods' etc while women only want sex within a stable relationship, women who enjoy sex are filthy and tramps, women who have sex with many different partners are slags and whores.

Challenge and change the view that men who love sex and have little inhibition about it are just men with high sex drives while women who love sex and have little inhibition are clearly troubled, probably abused.

This thread proves the last point very effectively.

The view here is clearly that any woman in the porn industry must have been trafficked and if not trafficked obviously is severely damaged with a history of abuse.

I see no comments stating the same about male performers.
What a surprise.

“ Talk to me about how proper regulation is going to be achieved.”

Why would anyone bother? You aren’t interested. You have moral objections to all porn full stop and you wish to impose your will on others regardless of any nuance or anything anyone says.

Well I know people who work in nail bars that aren’t like that at all- they are well paid, have all their rights respected and they love their jobs

Interesting.
So the one or two nail bars you know of are ethical and this naturally translates to mean most nail bars are therefore ethical?

There are women out there, one on this thread in fact, who are in the sex industry and insist that they are not trafficked or damaged, well paid, well looked after etc but they are obviously lying..?

This thread proves the last point very effectively

No it doesn’t, Streetwise. Why are you you so determined to believe that anyone who objects to porn is doing so because they are judging women who love sex?

frostedviolets

I think Betrand was making a point with her last post...

As someone that doesn't support (nor consume) pornography:

The issue with sex work is the actual job. It's selling your body, it's letting people use you for money. It is not just performing a task like picking fruit. It's having thing inserted into your most private areas.

And I am 'selling'* my brain, my words, my voice, my hands, my face, integrity and to an extent also name ...

(*in a rather similar manner as sex workers are 'selling' their bodies, I guess. Which is of course a fairly inaccurate and imo probably intentionally loaded term but that's an other discussion.)

Anyhow. Trying to outlaw porn or sex work would be as reasonable and considerably less successful as trying to outlaw alcohol, drugs. Or the internet... It won't work.
It's most likely as old as humanity herself and what we ought to concentrate on is holding providers accountable, regulating the industry as well as possible, offering support to all sex workers (male and female, btw), enacting comprehensive legislation in regards to human trafficking and victims (especially in conjunction with international partners)....

That's at least my opinion.

*I saw an interesting angle to the “sex work is just like any other job” thing the other day.

If it’s like any other job, should you be required to do it if you’re on benefits, and have your benefits removed if you refuse?*

Not a great argument.

The case for people 'working for their benefits' (whether you agree with that or not) is that they should be doing something beneficial for the wider society (in a similar way to community service).

Basically, fulfilling a role that the government/local-authority would otherwise have to pay for (e.g. litter picking).

Last time I checked there was no state-sponsored porn programme.

@SmileEachDay I suppose that depends. At present, could a young, attractive woman on benefits be forced to model or lose her claim? As those jobs already exist, but presumably are exempt from the rules surrounding benefits.

@frostedviolets - did you hear that whooshing noise?

PBo83

That’s not what I meant. I meant it should be offered as a job alongside working as a cashier, being a TA, being a mechanic, stacking shelves or any of the other jobs that get offered to people to get them off benefits and into work. Refuse to accept (or at least go for interviews) and benefits are reduced.

@SmileEachDay

But whilst there are lot of jobs OTHER than pornstar/model/sex worker that they can apply for then the point it moot. If there ever becomes a time when these are the only jobs left to apply for then I guess we'll have to consider it then

But whilst there are lot of jobs OTHER than pornstar/model/sex worker that they can apply for then the point it moot. If there ever becomes a time when these are the only jobs left to apply for then I guess we'll have to consider it then

Why? Why should those jobs only be considered in those circumstance?

At present, could a young, attractive woman on benefits be forced to model or lose her claim? As those jobs already exist, but presumably are exempt from the rules surrounding benefits

I don’t know? I wonder on what grounds a job would be exempt?

Jane do you think “sex work” (in its broadest sense) should be considered just like any job?