To think that women going on holiday to places like Tunisia should be warned

[Moomin8]

By holidays reps About these men who are waiters / bar staff / animation workers looking to get money from older (or younger) western women by this 'Bezness' culture?

My friend is 40 and met a Tunisian guy who is 24 - he was working in the Tui hotel resort she was holidaying in. He's just asked her to marry him and she's considering moving her two little dds to Tunisia. Cue photos of diamond encrusted gold engagement ring. She has only spent about 3 separate weeks with him!

She will want to believe he's different I guess. But really, what I hear is that these men are sometimes players of a very long game, will keep up the act for 3 years or more to get what they want (a visa, or money / access to wife's possessions so that he can then afford to go back to Tunisia and pay the dowry for his 'real' wife).

I don't think people are aware of just how these people operate. My friend is a vulnerable person. My heart sank when she announced the engagement 🤦🏻‍♀️

I worked there years ago

There are many men like this they see it as a way to a better life as there are few prospects there - I did know quite a few happy couples

To be honest I have seen women who have caught the men out and moved on to the next - yes they are foolish but many enjoy the drama of it all

In Thailand you see very old men with beautiful young wives

I think in both scenarios if they put their emotions, desire and egos aside they would know what the deal is but they don’t want to they want to get caught up in the passion and romance of it all

People can be warned, but if they are so inclined, they will always be "the exception".

Exactly this. My heart sank reading some of these stories. My ex-SIL met a Tunisian man here in the UK and it was absolutely textbook, we all had a bad feeling and tried to tell her so but she was blinded by how absolutely gorgeous he was and completely swept off her feet.

The guy already had 5 children by 4 different women, with timelines that very clearly overlapped (i.e. he had to have been shagging one woman while the previous one was still pregnant, multiple times) but she brushed off any concerns about this with a sob story about how all these women had tricked the poor guy and how cruel it was that they now ‘wouldn’t let him’ see any of the kids or pay maintenance... she also tried to get several family members to lend her thousands upon thousands of pounds so that he could pay off some debts ‘because he’s got loads of money but it’s all tied up back home so he can’t access it yet’ Anyone in the family who expressed any concerns though was just brushed off as being jealous/racist/not wanting her to be happy.

I’m no longer with her brother so don’t know much about what’s happening with them now but last thing I heard she was pregnant (baby number 6 for him!) and they were about to get married. I really hope I’m wrong about him but really really don’t think I am!

I don't think it's crazy to think a 24 yr old man would be attracted to a 40 year old woman. 40 isn't that old. He probably does genuinely fancy her. I'm in my late 40s and have had many dates with men 28-38 in the UK. They are not expecting money, although they usually do just want sex - I've no illusions about that.

The issue is that she believes they have a relationship, whereas most men are not interested in a relationship with that age gap if the woman is older. But I don't know what you can do about it, other than be there for her when it all breaks down.

When I was in the Gambia there was a very active market between the young 20 something local men and muxh older tourist European women. It was odd watching it all unfold. For many of these women they knew exactly what they wanted insofar as some 'company' on holiday and knew it was very much a transactional arrangement.

^This. An acquaintance has a long term “arrangement” with a man and goes out several times a year to see him. I find it as distasteful as I find men who go as sex tourists to places like Thailand. She saw it as a “win-win” situation for both of them.

However, I recently went to Turkey with my adult son. He was often off doing his own thing, so I was alone for much of the day. I was amazed at how attractive I had become during the flight from the UK as I appeared to be a magnet for a couple of members of staff. They were very charming, but not sincere. And yet, a colleague has been married for 20 years to the waiter she met on holiday in Turkey. She was told he was after a visa, but they seem very happy. It’s not simple

It's perfectly fine if both people know what the reality of the relationship is, ie a bit of fun or sex or whatever and maybe he does fancy her.

But the idea that he's asked her to marry him, knowing full well that he's conning her is wicked. Especially when she has dc. She's now on this promise to go & visit him every two months.

Picking up a point from earlier on the thread, I do of course accept that some men are vulnerable too but generally women are more so because we tend to be the ones with children of our own who also have a lot to lose and who live with us. Which also begs the question, what happens if this guy knocks her up?

As an ex holiday Rep YABU. I once gently ‘warned’ an older, single lady on holiday in The Gambia about some ‘over friendly’ taxi drivers - one of whom had a Scottish ‘girlfriend’ in the UK already. She gave me a mouthful and wrote a letter of complaint about me when she got home. Her complaint dragged on for months, she wanted me sacked and claimed ‘I was jealous’.

I don't think it's crazy to think a 24 yr old man would be attracted to a 40 year old woman. 40 isn't that old.

It's not the age that's the issue, from what I have observed abroad it seems very unlikely that the poor but square jawed six packed ridiculously handsome charming young man would be romantically interested in some not terribly attractive women old enough to be his mum/granny. They are desperate for a way out or better quality of life. Its no different to us being cynical at the motivations of the beautiful young Thai women coupling up with the fat 50 something man in Bangkok or wherever.

She must be as thick as mince.

She's now on this promise to go & visit him every two months

Hopefully, when the first question on meeting starts to be "did you bring the money?", she'll come to her senses ... hopefully too she's being careful about her contraception

You're quite right that these cons are wicked, but she's got to take some responsibility for her own choices, surely?

Picking up a point from earlier on the thread, I do of course accept that some men are vulnerable too but generally women are more so because we tend to be the ones with children of our own who also have a lot to lose and who live with us.

But to repeat: Nobody is forcing these women to be seduced by these men. If they like, they can enjoy the flirtation and even sleep with the men, safe in the knowledge that they'll be the ones flying out to their relatively rich homeland in a week's time, while the waiter or tour guide will be left in his relatively poor country, desperately seeking his next target.

The woman is in the position of power in these situations, regardless of whether or not she has young children.

Which also begs the question, what happens if this guy knocks her up?

There's this wondeful thing called contraction. It's not perfect but it works most of the time. Also in the UK there's this thing called abortion which is safely and legally available.

Women aren't victims in these situations, anymore than the pot-bellied blokes in Bangkok or Kiev are. Except of their own vanity and stupidity.

You could view it as prostitution-lite as i don't think many women would out and out hire an escort. But to give a Gambian sexual friend a cash gift would be more palatable.

Bearing in mind that you can't fix the imbalance of the countries' poverty personally then perhaps you could view it as an informed, though not overtly acknowledged, transaction between 2 adults.

What are you going to ‘warn’ women of? Shuld they put out a statement saying ‘Dear women, please don’t be absolutely fucking stupid enough to think you have met the love of your life in a foreign waiter you’ve kmown a few days, don’t give him your money or marry him’ ??

Also haven't read the full thread yet, but I went to Tunisia when I was 14 and some of the men there were very inappropriate with me. I was just a child. I would never want to go back...ever

Gosh, @nottodaysatanlucifer. A similar thing happened to me when I was 12.
It was in England. I've since moved to Wales, but do you think I'm actually safe now, or should I emigrate?

@messolini9 leave off

These were people who worked in the fucking complex.

Is your point actually that this man could be genuine and it's racist to assume he is out for what he can get?

No, @Moomin8!
I reckon you are 95% likely to be right to be concerned for your friend, but that casually assuming that an entire country is populated by young gigolos on the make is not a good look.

However ... I appreciate, really appreciate your time & trouble in answering me so courteously in that long reply, & am happy to accept that worry for your chum maybe meant you used emotive & unclear language previously in this thread.
So I would like to offer you thanks for that, & an olive branch to let you know that I will respect your well-meant explanation along with your lovely manners, & wind my neck in now.

What kind of wealth privilege makes a woman of 50, 60, 70 think that a barely out of his teens man genuinely is in love with her. The taking advantage happens on both sides please. Maybe Tunisians shd be warned about these hordes of women coming to take advantage of them.

You see this story of predatory older women going to deprived parts of the world and doing this I wonder why we are meant to look at the women as victims while reviling men who marry young Thai brides. They are all the same.

This is quite common. I had a friend from New Zealand who met a Scottish guy whilst she was over here in UK. She hadn’t known him long before taking him back to NZ with her and as soon as he’d got his required NZ papers/visa he was off. Played the long game.

These were people who worked in the fucking complex.
And I'm sure it was a distressing & frightening experience, @nottodaysatanlucifer - as was mine - but to blame it on the entire blooming country rather than the actual culprit is bonkers.

Predatory men abusing teenage girls is a global phenomenon. I can assure you that the awful man who behaved inappropriately with you didn't do so because he was Tunisian. He did it because he was a rapey bastard who thought he'd get away with it. Just like the English one who did it to me.

You see this story of predatory older women going to deprived parts of the world and doing this I wonder why we are meant to look at the women as victims while reviling men who marry young Thai brides. They are all the same.

Hear hear, @Shaded.

@messolini9 thanks - I'm glad to have cleared that up.

I wonder why we are meant to look at the women as victims while reviling men who marry young Thai brides

Do most folk view the women as victims though? That may be how they try to present themselves, but just about everyone I've ever heard - including most on here - say they should have had more sense in the first place

I'm not sure about them "taking advantage" of the locals though; from what I've seen most of these locals are only too glad to take them for whatever they can get

Although it's really not as easy to get a UK visa as many seem to think. So many hoops to jump through, criteria to be met, money to be paid over.

The Home Office actively look for ways to turn down candidates.

Having spent some time in the Middle East I actually find these types of men quite off putting. They are clearly so insincere and overtly flattering. It's very odd to an emotionally rather closed British person. You can't possibly believe a word of it!!

These stupid women deserve what they get it has been documented a million times, they will never listen or learn