To think that women going on holiday to places like Tunisia should be warned

[Moomin8]

By holidays reps About these men who are waiters / bar staff / animation workers looking to get money from older (or younger) western women by this 'Bezness' culture?

My friend is 40 and met a Tunisian guy who is 24 - he was working in the Tui hotel resort she was holidaying in. He's just asked her to marry him and she's considering moving her two little dds to Tunisia. Cue photos of diamond encrusted gold engagement ring. She has only spent about 3 separate weeks with him!

She will want to believe he's different I guess. But really, what I hear is that these men are sometimes players of a very long game, will keep up the act for 3 years or more to get what they want (a visa, or money / access to wife's possessions so that he can then afford to go back to Tunisia and pay the dowry for his 'real' wife).

I don't think people are aware of just how these people operate. My friend is a vulnerable person. My heart sank when she announced the engagement 🤦🏻‍♀️

What would actually help a LOT is wider understanding of Arabic (the language) literary culture. It is a beautiful language with some of the most romantic poetry. The pop songs are normal pop songs in Arabic, but translated to English are the sorts of words English speaking men (or women) simply wouldn't be able to string together, for the most part, because we just don't have that tradition (think of Italian romance culture and multiply that exponentially!). Just the "you light up the room" or "you light up the city" or "I missed you" are things people say in Arabic ALL THE TIME. They're normal, flattering but friendly things people say. Translate to English and they're some of the most romantic words many native English speaking women will ever hear.

And a big fat yes to this:
OP you di realise man of these men are vulnerable as well?

Their poverty makes them vulnerable.

Do you think reps should warn women of a certain age, that actually these men are very poor and desperate. If you go down this and keep giving them money you are a punter, paying for sex?

Should reps warn women it's not ok to exploit someones poverty for sex?"

There's definitely two sides to this and while the men doing these things may be chancers (and those who don't do this definitely exist, but many of them are unlikely to be working around tourists that much), the women just close their eyes and ears to the idea that he's human. To them he's a dream literally, like he comes from a fairy tale. They'd run a mile usually if a guy at home treated them like he does but they allow themselves - these men do not drag the women kicking and screaming - to be bamboozled by his "foreignness".

No, Moomin but I don't think of people as victims when the power balance swings to their great advantage.
I'm disgusted by men who go to Thailand (for e.g.) and find themselves suddenly attractive to a much younger, poorer woman and reap the benefits of that as well.

This happened to a distant relative of mine.

Went on holiday and met a much younger man, not Tunisian though.
Said he loved her almost instantly, marriage proposal followed shortly after.

She got married to him, even after family and friends warnings. He wanted to move to the UK (made it obvious from the start that he wanted to live here). His application kept getting declined, he wasn't very happy with this and blamed her. Next thing she is pregnant, very high risk pregnancy but fortunately baby born healthy but took a big toll on her. He was happy as his words were 'will definitely get to live in the UK now as we have a son'.
Well his visa still got declined, he left her and took the child as in his culture, men have custody of children.
That was about 8 years ago now, she has only seen her son a handful of times as he refuses access.

I'm not sure what you can do for the women, but if the children are still minors I think I'd be flagging it up with social services.

I don't know if this would come under their remit, but these relationships are definitely not in the children's best interests if they get to stay in their home country, they can be very detrimental if they get dragged to another country. Whether or not social services could put them as 'at risk' with a condition that they not be allowed to travel out of their home country I don't know, but it might help the children caught up in these disasters of their mothers' making.

It is not racist to be concerned about that
Er, yes it is, in your instance, becausevyou are not acknowledging that this is a global phenomenon, &
... and is not the same thing as saying that all Tunisians are scammers.
Except you did say that, by enquiring whether there are ANY 'genuine' men in Tunisia, thereby inadvertently displaying your racist asdumption that there were not.

... many of the British women targeted on holiday may not perceive that by Tunisian standards they are loaded.

I think you are spot-on with this, @Prawnofthepatriarchy.
Although any mature woman who is so ignorant or foolish to NOT know this, or at least find it out by some pre-trip research, is clearly also a fool of the type discussed by several pp's above.

My real worry is that someone so plainly clueless was allowed to have children.

Allowed?

By whom - the ministry for reproduction?

A local woman in her 40's met a young 20 ish man abroad, They had a huge wedding and he wore a full Masai outfit, Guess what?, once he was here, he went to London to be with his Polish girlfriend he was already seeing. She was in the paper saying "he said he loved me". I think he was found and deported but but he'd had most of her money anyway.

But it apparently is a cultural norm fgs. In certain holiday resorts.

Holiday resorts, @Moomin8, are neither representative nor indicative of cultural norms.

It may be flattering to be flirted with by a lissom, young hottie but my thoughts would be on how I'm old enough to be his mum. That tends to bring things into sharp focus.

Wow I bet everyone will have a field day with me - but I'll tell you my story

I've been in a relationship with a Turkish man for more than 3 years now. We don't live together, I visit 5 or 6 times a year for 2-3 weeks at a time.

Yes he's a hotel manager
Yes we met online

No he doesn't EVER ask me for money, in fact he pays for almost everything when I go to visit
No he hasn't EVER asked to try and get even a holiday visa, let alone one to allow him to live in the UK
No he hasn't asked me to marry him (yet, I know its on the cards)

I've met all his family, near and far across Turkey
I've met all his friends, married, single, with and without children
I've met all his work colleagues and his boss and get along very well with all of them
I've taken my DD7 out there to meet him, she hero worships him and he adores her, as do his family - and she speaks to him on FaceTime most days

Oh and Turkey is NOT a 'developing' or 'third world' country - Jesus Christ the medical attention I've had there has far exceeded what I've had here

There ARE kind, genuine, non-scamming men in other countries!! I'm not saying the man in this case is genuine - I don't know - but mine IS.

Oh and far from me having a toyboy, he's actually 11 years older than me, I'm 30

I'll now sit and wait to be told how 'moronic' I am 😂😂

It is not cultural norm. Many young men there do do it for the beznez, but like any places there are food and bad.

It's actually a beautiful country to live, good schools and universities. Great cafes and restaurant, shopping and galleries. More insular since the Arab spring which I was living through there. But still a nice country.

However I know of women married to Tunisians for over 30, 40 years with long successful marriages and also then the ones who marry for a visa.

I went out for friends wedding 11 years ago now and he called it off. Why? because after a 5 year relationship with her, he had found a 60 year old rich English lady who was buying him a business. It happens there like with any country. Greek, Turkey, Africa, Russia, Thailand, China etc

Food and bad is good and bad, stupid autocorrect.

Haven't read the full thread, but if you're really concerned your friend is vulnerable (due to say mental health problems or significant other disability) and is putting her children at risk in some fashion you could consider:

1. A safeguarding referral to the local safeguarding adults board.
2. A social care referral for the children.
3. Contacting their GP.
4. Contacting the children's school.
5. If you think someone's blackmailing her or similar, you could try the FCO's forced marriage helpline, see www.gov.uk/stop-forced-marriage

Also haven't read the full thread yet, but I went to Tunisia when I was 14 and some of the men there were very inappropriate with me. I was just a child. I would never want to go back...ever

Does he pay for your flights, mug? Maybe he doesn't want you for your money but enjoys the extremely casual relationship you offer and probably has other women flying in when you go home.

So, you can’t get her to see sense - a trusted friend.
But you expect a rep ticking a box saying at the welcome drink that she might not go to “oh and watch out for pickpockets and romantic approaches purely for a visa”?

OK.

There's no reason for anyone to "have a field day" with you, Iamclearlyamug - your choices are your own to make, as are the consequences

I hope, though, that you've at least considered that he may have others on the go in the many weeks when you're not there?

My friend worked in victim support for the police. She never gave any personal details but said her caseload was full of seemingly intelligent and often older women who got scammed home and abroad while looking for love. It’s common, I think even with warnings when people are desperately lonely it will happen. It’s sort of happened to a very dear friend of mine, we came close to falling out when they were getting together.

If a women like your friend is honestly stupid enough to think this man ‘loves’ her and isn’t using her then more fool her.

I went to Tunisia when I was 14 and some of the men there were very inappropriate with me. I was just a child. I would never want to go back...ever

That happened to the 12 year old daughter of a Czech friend, nottoday - they'd gone on holiday to Turkey with another family who had only sons. What the pest with a hand on his daughter's breast didn't know was that both dads were in the army, or that they'd escort him to a nearby alley to "discuss" it ...

When I was in the Gambia there was a very active market between the young 20 something local men and muxh older tourist European women. It was odd watching it all unfold. For many of these women they knew exactly what they wanted insofar as some 'company' on holiday and knew it was very much a transactional arrangement. There were also a sizable minority of women falling for the sweet talk bullshit and ending up in love with these young men. They were obviously fishing for a EU passport. It was very sad to be honest.

Literally everyone knows about these cons. Who takes a man being intensely interested that seriously.
I'm sorry your friend needs to think with her head not her vag.

@messolini9 you are looking at the wrong person in terms of accusing me of racism. Although, I can understand that perhaps I haven't worded my posts very well and also that the U.K. has become a nasty, intolerant country since Brexit.

My intention all along was certainly not to imply that all Tunisians are out to screw people over or whatever but that in certain holiday resorts it is becoming a big problem (though I didn't make that clear enough) and I suppose my responses to the situation are rather more emotive than they could be because I feel that she is about to squander her kids inheritances. She does own various properties.

Apparently it's racist to say that this goes on in Tunisia (I only mentioned Tunisia specifically because this is where her situation is) and not other countries but also disrespectful to suggest that there are some types of countries where people are generally so desperate to get out of there that they will prey on women who might be able to help them financially.

Is your point actually that this man could be genuine and it's racist to assume he is out for what he can get? At one time I'd have wanted to hope that she'll have a happy ending but that seems so unlikely.

The main problem here is that women are brainwashed/socialised/manipulated into believing that being single is a very bad thing, especially being a single parent.

Yes, this is very true.