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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that women going on holiday to places like Tunisia should be warned

294 replies

Moomin8 · 28/10/2019 13:36

By holidays reps About these men who are waiters / bar staff / animation workers looking to get money from older (or younger) western women by this 'Bezness' culture?

My friend is 40 and met a Tunisian guy who is 24 - he was working in the Tui hotel resort she was holidaying in. He's just asked her to marry him and she's considering moving her two little dds to Tunisia. Cue photos of diamond encrusted gold engagement ring. She has only spent about 3 separate weeks with him!

She will want to believe he's different I guess. But really, what I hear is that these men are sometimes players of a very long game, will keep up the act for 3 years or more to get what they want (a visa, or money / access to wife's possessions so that he can then afford to go back to Tunisia and pay the dowry for his 'real' wife).

I don't think people are aware of just how these people operate. My friend is a vulnerable person. My heart sank when she announced the engagement 🤦🏻‍♀️

OP posts:
FizzyIce · 30/10/2019 09:26

*warn

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 30/10/2019 10:05

DH and I went to Turkey over 20 years ago, there was a magazine in the room with an article warning about this .
Written by a British woman who had moved out to Turkey and married her hotel manager .

Warnings weren't the financial exploitation angle , more it seems exciting to live there but in reality it's pretty dead out of season and the work dries up (though now its an all-year destination).
You will have to live with your Turkish, non English speaking MIL who will not accept you (I think she said it took a long time for her In Laws to accept her into the family but she had to learn Turkish quickly)
And don't believe them when they say the condoms don't fit them- they just don't want to wear them !

So , yes , nothing new .

quincejamplease · 30/10/2019 10:19

Looks like this thread has gathered together all the vile ignorant people who think abused women deserve it, brought it on themselves, chose it, etc etc. The sheer number of posters who can't comprehend why the op describes her friend as vulnerable is telling.

No woman deserves to be targeted by an abusive man and "common sense" or "stupidity" have little to do with it. Abuse happens to women from all backgrounds, although some indeed are at greater risk. The person at fault is the abusive man.

Whether it's your garden variety abusive man living in the UK and targeting women in the UK, or one living in a different country targeting women in the UK with his eye on a visa.

The former can play a much shorter game than the latter who needs to manoeuvre his way to a visa and settled status, but ultimately they both deploy the same manipulation and isolation of their target, and both have the same impact on their target. Adult women can be groomed just as much as children.

The defensiveness of your friend when challenged, op, is the same as is frequently described on here by posters worried about a friend or relative being sucked into an abusive relationship. You stand the best chance of helping her if you don't do anything that leads to he becoming isolated and cut off from her entire support network. There is advice on the Women's Aid website that may help - don't tell her to leave him, don't suggest she's stupid for believing he loves her, don't badmouth him. Ask questions as opportunities arise in natural conversation that give her opportunities to voice doubts or start thinking through concerns privately, but without making her feel judged or attacked. She needs to know if she walks away from him that she won't be roundly mocked and condemned for being stupid.

It's common for women who've been raised in abusive households to end up being abused as adults and going from one abusive relationship to the next. Not because they are stupid or deserve it or want to be abused, but because abuse has been normalised for them, because nobody has ever taught them what a healthy relationship even looks like for them to know life could be different, because nobody has ever taught them what abuse is or how to spot warning signs, and because they think it's normal to be abused and are used to it and used to having to put up with how awful it makes them feel.

How many times do we see posters on here who go from one abusive relationship into another one because the new man started off comparatively lovely next to the ex and the poster had never been given the tools or knowledge to use spot warning signs of abuse so just decided the new guy wasn't abusive because compared to the by then severely abusive ex in the end stage, the new abusive man in the love bombing stage seemed like a dream come true.

If you have an ounce of knowledge about the dynamics of abuse and compassion for your fellow human beings it is not difficult to understand this.

The only difference with your friend's current situation is that there is so much more at stake. It will most likely be years before his true intent is revealed - he can't risk her realising before he has what he wants, the same as Uk-based abusive men keep up the pretence until after the woman is pregnant or has married him.

It's sad there are so many nasty, ignorant people on this thread condemning women in difficult situations that these posters have demonstrated they understand nothing about.

Moomin8 · 30/10/2019 10:42

I didn't post the specifics of what happened to her. But yes, from a young age (ie child) her parents didn't protect her and allowed her to be abused by adult men.

OP posts:
Tennesseewhiskey · 30/10/2019 10:45

@quincejamplease so women arent ever responsible for themseleves?

By your description and assumptions this women shouldnt be allowed out on her own, never mind with the kids if she can not be trusted to come into contact with people without critical thinking or being flattered into putring her children in a dangerous position. Are you saying she cant protect her children?

Yes, women end up in abusive relationships. But your description of this woman is completely off. You are saying she cant trusted to act in the best interest of her children if someone waves their cock her way.

The fact remains that this dalliance started, the ops friend will have been fully aware that her status made her more attractive. And gave her and advantage. She took advantage of that. But now the tables have turned.

OP says she is vulnerable. It's actually the kids that are vulnerable because their mother wont sort herself out and goes from one poor relationship to the next. At some point, as an adult you have to take responsibility for yourself, to protect your children.

I speak as someone who moved from my mothers abusive household, in with my husband who also turned abusive while I was pregnant. I had to flee to property and dont have contact with any of them, including my mother.

It's not ok for me to float around putting my children's well being at risk and claiming victim. Ops friend knows exactly what goes on in these resorts. She still chose to get involved. A holiday company warning wont have stopped that.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/10/2019 12:25

No woman deserves to be targeted by an abusive man and "common sense" or "stupidity" have little to do with it

I agree with the first part of that, but not - in this particular context - the second. There seems to me a world of difference between getting involved in a relationship that you couldn't possibly have known would "go bad" and one where endless previous experiences show it almost certainly will ... and that's without considering the glaring question of why a lithe 20 year old waiter would want a much older woman

Granted folk don't always learn from others' experience, but even if they noted it some would still insist their case was different and their holiday charmer was sincere

Sorry, but as so many PPs have said, you just can't legislate for stupidity and at some point folk have to accept responsibility for their own choices

Oliversmumsarmy · 31/10/2019 11:56

No woman deserves to be targeted by an abusive man

Women can be targeted by any amount of abusive men but it doesn’t mean they have to fall for it hook line and sinker.

In this case the stories speak for themselves and if you believe some teenage/20 something young man is going to be interested in crawling over a 40/50/60 year olds body because he is in love with them then the woman (or man) is either delusional and needs therapy or is a sex tourist.

tillytrotter1 · 31/10/2019 22:00

because Tunisia has no cultural/historical sites worth visiting at all.

I do hope this comment is meant as an attempt at irony or humour, Tunisia is a wonderful place for culture and historical sites if you get out of your seaside hotel.

tillytrotter1 · 31/10/2019 22:03

No woman deserves to be targeted by an abusive man and "common sense" or "stupidity" have little to do with it

Rubbish, no-one deserves to be burgled or have their car nicked but it doesn't stop us using the common sense and locking things up.
Everyone has to take some responsibility for their own safety and well-being.

MissEliza · 31/10/2019 22:06

I think that's a very good idea Op. I lived and taught in a Muslim country for about ten years. Dh was from that country ( I met him when he was at uni here). I came across so many, usually older, women who'd met some guy on holiday (waiter, tour guide etc), she'd married him and he'd treated her like an ATM. Not one relationship was happy or ended well.

LazyDaisey · 01/11/2019 14:35

I think you’re being ridiculous, OP, I lived in Egypt 20 years ago and it was an “old” trick back then. Middle aged women “falling in love” with 20 something year olds within a week Hmm. Then when that tourism dries up, they moved on to hot young Russian girls for “fun”

Moomin8 · 01/11/2019 16:08

Oh bloody hell. I should literally never have started this thread 🙈🙈🙈

OP posts:
JoJoSM2 · 01/11/2019 16:43

🤣

Moomin8 · 01/11/2019 16:49

I think because I'm pregnant I've reacted emotively. Mainly because when I see her kids happy faces on all these posts it makes me think this is a nightmare.

Certainly I can see how the thread will have attracted the wrong attention , especially reading it back. I made a mistake. My bad.

OP posts:
DeeCeeCherry · 01/11/2019 16:49

Yeah good luck with warning off middle aged & elderly women from enticing young fit men with their cash, and talk of fantastic lifestyle back home.

I feel sorry for the young men in poverty, having to give themselves to women they wouldn't touch with someone else's if they didn't have to.

Yet another example of western exploitation that somehow always positions itself as the victim

LazyDaisey · 01/11/2019 18:43

@DeeCeeCherry, and where did you learn this, watching some documentary or reading the guardian? Plenty of good looking men in poverty who don’t lie and fuck foreign women to get “gifted” some money. The guys who I see doing this were hardly innocent victims. And most of the older women they had sex with didn’t buy the bullshit “I love you habibti” they were selling along with it. The stupid ones who fell for it were rare gems and were much discussed, as “jackpots”

Jmprivate · 02/11/2019 13:48

www.tunisianloverats.com/Gallery/

This website might help people understand the size of the problem for women on holiday in Tunisia.

DeeCeeCherry · 03/11/2019 16:21

LazyDaisey I live in the Caribbean for 8 months of the year. I'm here now. That's it.

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