To think MN is at risk of becoming a Mean Girls bitchfest

[Sparklfairy]

Flame me if you want, but I've been shocked lately at how OPs are being attacked when they post on here.

This isn't a TAAT, it's a general trend of spewing vitriol and being downright nasty in the name of being 'blunt' or 'telling it like it is'.

MN was always the place we could go for honest opinions and different points of view. A fantastic support when people are caught up in bad relationships and can't see the wood from the trees or a way out.

More commonly though I see a pack mentality developing where one poster will make a snide comment and then others pile in. It's no better than playground bullying. Reminds me of mean girls. If you don't write a certain way, use the 'right' MN terms, if you're new and don't know the right MN etiquette yet, and god forbid you don't use perfect grammar, then somehow you don't fit in here and therefore deserve to be called names, mocked and bullied by strangers.

People post on forums like these, especially when new here, when theyre out of options. They don't want to or can't talk to people in RL and want to reach out. I know how it feels to be horribly isolated in a shitty situation and if I'd posted here and received half the abuse I've seen on some threads it could well have pushed me over the edge.

I love reading threads where a woman has got out of a shitty relationship as a result of the support she's read here. But when she's at her lowest, a few shitty comments attacking her for no reason can stop that happening.

By all means, say what you think. But name calling doesn't help. If you have advice, offer it, but berating someone's life choices is simply kicking someone when they're down because you can. And that makes you no better than the bastards some of these women are married to/partnered with.

And before anyone says 'if you don't like MN then leave'. If I did that there would be fewer of us to call this shit out.

Doesn't AIBU mean 'All In Bust Up'?
It's certainly pretty brutal much of the time so far as I can see, not the supportive forum I mistakenly thought it was.

Sometimes I think about posting for advice on a topic... Particularly an issue with MIL at the moment but then I don't, because I can't be arsed with the inevitable

You sound like a horrible person

You sound controlling

It's no wonder she doesn't like you

Etc etc.

What I struggle with is the advice to new mums. This is a parenting forum so new anxious mums will ask for advice understandably.

But the pile on in AIBU because a new mother is worried about her newborn baby, is sometimes baffling. Given the prevalence of PND and PNA, it sometimes is very obvious that the poster is clearly suffering from some form of post natal anxiety. There was one thread where the OP admitted she suffered anxiety and was worried about her 5 month old being harmed.

Her replies:

"Your baby is not that fucking precious" "You sound like a loon"
"You think you're the only woman to give birth ffs!!"

To someone in the throes of a mental illness that can dehabilitate.

Tbh I have to take a lot of breaks from mumsnet because it often makes me feel shit about myself. The lifestyle choices and interests of others are so often belittled and OPs are made to feel really terrible.

Oh lord was that really said to a new mum, how bloody awful!
Some posters are just arseholes who think they're special from behind a keypad yet wouldn't dream if saying tweet to a dickie bird in RL

Yanbu

Really puts me off posting

Some posters are just arseholes who think they're special from behind a keypad yet wouldn't dream if saying tweet to a dickie bird in RL

I never understand this way of thinking. You don’t know that at all.

I think this thread has sensitised me, because I'm now seeing even more dickish replies than I was before.

Reallybadidea I know, it's like once you're aware of it you see it everywhere!

NoSauce it's a fact that most 'bullies' are cowards. And while theres no consequence from behind a keyboard it makes it easy for them. Of course, some of them may regularly get into scraps in RL too

NoSauce it's a fact that most 'bullies' are cowards. And while theres no consequence from behind a keyboard it makes it easy for them

On the contrary, I don’t see anyone bullying being left to get away with it on here anymore. Posters being twats are highlighted by other posters, quite rightly so.

Trouble is no sauce that doesn’t neutralise the effect of the unpleasant words said

I also believe that just because you post in AIBU? doesn’t give anyone the right to kick the boot in.

I’ve seen it happen so many times too BUT I do think on the whole this place is really supportive, especially in Relationships and the like but I tend to float around many subjects so perhaps seeing a broader spectrum of members.

I think it’s shit when an op is berated for their SPAG and then says they’re dyslexic. Yes one could say they should mention that in the op but most people don’t for fear of making excuses- can’t win either way.

I love Mumsnet and have been here for years. It has got me through some of my darkest times, has made me laugh ( not spit my tea out laugh ) and has made me cry. The majority of posters are good people and I think the mentality should be that we should think about what we post and take a second to realise that there are real people behind these issues, barring the trolls of course and they become pretty easy to spot over time.

Also, i am conscious of posting something that I wouldn’t say to someone in real lit’s, just because I am anonymous.

When MN becomes such a lions dens, it dissuade people from speaking up and makes me wonder how many women are out there desperately looking for advice but feel their writing skills are not up to the task of asking.
Of late, I have been very cagey about the veracity of some threads. I dont troll hunt, just step out, but there have been a couple of disturbing ones. Now, when I read a title, if it doesn't seem genuine to me, I just pass it by. I dont know if MN can do anything about that but it has left me with a deep distrust of certain topics.
Overall, I agree that there is some poor behaviour and I do report but mostly, I totally avoid AIBU. There is nothing very helpful that comes out of it and the original point often gets lost in the resulting dust up.
I pick and chose carefully but even on a fairly inoffensive thread, there will be a really unnecessary comment. Happened to me the other day and I gently pointed out that the sarcasm was really unnecessary. No more said but it felt like the tone was filtering through even into the least fighty parts if MN.
In all, I agree with you but I think it goes in cycles. Things will settle for a bit then it will all go off again

It's not a lion's den, it's a vipers nest.

And it always was, and always will be.

There used to be a troll, who used to start 'you're all bitches' thread just about every week. Not seen for a while, but he assumption - that women hpshould be posting in a certain way - is definlyine hat needs changing. There should be no requirement for women to be 'nice' al, the time. It's Om tomsay what you think,t your thoughts in the terms that suit you.

Personal attacks and breaching the spirit of MN lead to deletion and can lead to banning.

It is way, way better to deal with posts you think have gone too far on the thread on which it is happening

I think it is wrong to start threads denigrating all and sundry - for it could be any or all of us that the OP is criticising. And I don't like the general attack on MN as a whole.

Women won't always conform to expectations of niceness. It's wrong to expect that, and wrong to censor expression unless it breaches MNHQ's rules. If you want sites with different rules, there are simply oodles to choose from

The problem is that mn is also the place to be gratified in the belief that as a poster, you are inevitably the victim of the whole terrible people out there who are not treating you with the highest respect that you deserve and I think that getting this ratification can do much more damage in real life than good.

In real life, things are rarely black or white and it is rare that someone is totally blameless in any issues. Yet, mn is all about focusing on how others are in the wrong, and never encourage self-exploration of our own feelings and actions. Yet it is the latter than we can influence the most.

So I do believe that challenging posters is not always a bad thing, not in a nasty, you are horrible way, but in a 'have you also consider that maybe your actions, believes might not be faultless, and that there are maybe things you could change to make the situation that frustrates you better'.

Yet the moment someone doesn't agree with an OP, it is assumed that to be nastiness. To be fair, it is probably self-directed because when I seek advice, from a friend, a colleague, a professional, one I'm after most is then being honest and help me see how I can make changes to make things better rather than being getting the 'poor you, everything is so unfair, you deserve sooooo much better'.

A good moan is great though, but I do that with close friends who know that it is all for release and a bit of a laugh rather than validation of my own feelings.

Women won't always conform to expectations of niceness. It's wrong to expect that, and wrong to censor expression unless it breaches MNHQ's rules

There’s a marked difference between saying “you must be nice” and saying “don’t be a dick for the sake of it”.

I always find the grammar police so annoying, quite often it is as if they haven't actually digested what the post is about and instead pick up on trivial stuff. I always try to post constructive advice even if I think the OP is being ridiculous however I will say that first. I think a lot of people are generally very helpful and supportive, there are a few people out there that dont read the posts fully, comment on spelling and grammar above all else and those that feel the need to swear when it is uncalled for. I think that is just a negative of posting on a public forum.

Yet the moment someone doesn't agree with an OP, it is assumed that to be nastiness.

It really isn't. Disagreeing is fine. And coming in to a forum is a good way of getting honest opinions which are helpful, as real life people tend to want to be seen to agree, even if they're unconvinced.

It's the unnecessary unpleasant tone, the spiteful response, the personal attacks (I mean c'mon, going for someone's spelling and grammar is entirely unnecessary in this context, and I speak as someone who finds errors very jarring).

There’s a marked difference between saying “you must be nice” and saying “don’t be a dick for the sake of it”.

Well exactly. And while I think women should be more angry about things like casual sexism, poor maternity care etc, I don't think that extends to telling someone they're a shit parent because they weaned their baby at 16 weeks. For instance.

I also don’t think it helps that women are posting very sensitive issues like DV, abortion, bereavement etc in AIBU because of how busy it is. There responses would be more gentle and kinder is posted in the appropriate section.

Well indeed, @NoSauce.

What I dislike is the fact that AIBU is now and accepted place to be blunt, direct and often downright nasty - there seems to be some kind of belief that if you post there that you should expect that kind of response. The number of times I've seen people post something along the lines of 'if you want a more sympathetic response why don't you post this in [x]?'

Why should that be? We should expect the same kind of response wherever we post! (Although I also take issue with people who won't post in the 'right' place because they're 'posting for traffic' )

I absolutely agree that there's no reason why we can't challenge or give a contrary view or disagree quite strongly with someone's post. But don't use being in AIBU as an excuse for being deliberately unpleasant. It's not big and it's not clever. As some might say ...

The number of times I've seen people post something along the lines of 'if you want a more sympathetic response why don't you post this in [x]?'
I've posted that a few times if I've arrived on a thread early and it's in AIBU, mainly because there's posters who stay on certain boards with a lot of experience and expertise who can help and a poster in AIBU probably wouldn't get that.

It also means people who want actual help Vs a rant can maybe save themselves as there's some really crap advice on AIBU from people more interested in stirring the pot than helping.

For example the amount of times I've replied to help (same with other teachers) in AIBU from a range of people who are "fuming" over half a story, only to end up getting a pasting from cheerleader posters for suggesting a more measured approach that would get a better outcome is ridiculous. Some people post in AIBU clearly because they want some cheerleading and a pat on the back rather than actual help. If someone gets signposted to a better topic then that means the help can be given where it's wanted.

Yes I know all that @LolaSmiles! Which is what I also said in my post. It would be lot easier if people posted in the 'right' places.

My point was that a lot of MNetters seem to think that it's different in AIBU and that if you post there then you should expect a mauling!

I see what you mean.
I think AIBU is different, but that doesn't mean anyone should expect a mauling.

I do also think that some of what goes in AIBU goes there rather than other topics purely because the OP is hoping for a mass cheerlead and then if/when it doesn't go their way, they get quite stroppy to posters, which makes whole threads become quite unpleasant.
I'm sure that's why there's the running joke:
OP: AIBU
Most people: yes you are unreasonable
OP: drip drip drip or change story
Most people: still unreasonable
OP: NO I'M NOT! I should have known bette than to ask