Falling asleep with newborn

[youcantsitwithusxo]

Posting in here for traffic..
My DD is 4 weeks old. Every night me or DP unintentionally fall asleep with her on our chest. She's quite needy and will tend to fall asleep being held (she likes to be on our chest) and then once she's asleep we transfer her into her crib. However it has become a daily accurance that during this process we will fall asleep with her on our chest. This is terrifying me because of all the things I've heard about SIDS but I can't stress enough that we try so hard to not fall asleep like this but somehow it keeps happening. Most nights I will wake up on the sofa with her on my chest and DP fast asleep on the chair or vice versa with me waking up to find DP asleep with her on his chest. I then go into a panic checking that she's breathing! I've talked to family and friends about this who just say put her in her crib when you're tired but the thing is, I could be feeling fine watching tele holding her and then next thing I'm waking up hours later holding her. It's hard to just put her in her crib when she's not tired because she screams so that's where the holding her and falling asleep ends up happening. I feel like such a bad parent because I know how dangerous this is! It's really scaring me and I dunno what to do.. any advice if you've gone through this? What worked for you? Am I a bad mum for falling asleep with my newborn on me most nights?

@M0reGinPlease I’m not making anything up. I’m a trained midwife who needs to be aware of safe sleep guidelines as we advise parents every day regarding it. The lullaby trust have condemned these products. The manufacturer has now stated they are for supervised use only. They are not safe to use overnight.

Ah OK that is new information to me. Last I heard there had been no deaths associated with them, though I thought that there would eventually. Sad that it has come to that.

Do you not think some situations are riskier than others? I was always taught that the sofa sleeping is the riskiest of all because yes, the baby can fall into a poor position on the parent, but can also slip between cushions and become trapped, or fall out onto the floor.

@Indella link to this 'advice' please. Your post said the manufacturers of Sleepyhead state they're not to be used overnight, this simply isn't true.

As I said, everyone needs to weigh up the evidence and make an informed decision for themselves, but don't state things which are simply untrue.

The manufacturer has now stated they are for supervised use only.

Where please @Indella? Genuine question.

Here is one death caused by a sleep nest. Bear with me while I find the recommendations online. They were sent to us by letter but I’m sure they are in the instructions now.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.kidspot.com.au/baby/newborn/newborn-sleep/devastated-mums-warning-she-suffocated-in-this-stupid-stupid-bed/news-story/9e3d8f9273bbb8e27cb0daa38246c410%3famp

I'd be interested to know about this Sleepyhead death, as it seems to have been entirely unreported. It also seems strange that they are giving this advice to midwives but not to actual consumers and purchasers of the product.

Mind you, when we were in hospital a few months ago, all the babies were given makeshift Sleepyheads made out of of rolled towels by the midwives and they joked it was a budget Sleepyhead!

Sofa sleeping is horribly dangerous, even just because of the angle a baby can end up at. When we were in hospital with newborn DD, DP had her at a bad angle for no longer than a minute or so on his chest. He hadn't noticed as we were speaking to midwife but she suddenly grabbed her because she'd started to go blue because her head was lolling down on to her chest. That right there made me certain never to sleep with her on my chest like that. If you're unable to stay awake for whatever reason then you cannot have her lying on you like that.

@Indella that doesn't specifically say Sleepyhead though does it? There are hundreds of similar products on the market.

I've researched Sleepyheads a lot and that Australian one is the only story I've ever found where a baby has died, and it's not even a Sleepyhead as far as I'm as aware, just a 'nest' which could be anything and from anywhere 🤷‍♀️

I understand why people wouldn't want to use them, but we've got a lot of use out of ours and I was comfortable with the level of risk as I saw it. They're actually made in Sweden (or at least a Swedish company), which I believe has a lower SIDs rates than here. I don't know how much they are used there, however, but I would suspect quite a lot?

@M0reGinPlease Here you go. Notice how they try and pretend the product is safe but then mention supervision over and over again? That way they can walk away blameless from any deaths by saying the parents should have supervised more.

@Celebelly If you click the Facebook link you will see the exact nest used. Not a sleepyhead no but the exact same thing just a different brand.

That looks incredibly soft compared to a Sleepyhead. Sleepyheads are firm, not squashy and puffy and nowhere near as deep. It looks like a cheap and badly executed knock-off.

@Indella

That is not from the manufacturers website.

And if you’re looking for sleepyhead deaths search Dockatot, that’s their USA name. They changed the name when they launched in the U.K. as they had been banned previously and had a bad reputation.

@M0reGinPlease It’s their instruction manual! Look believe what you want and do what you want with your baby. If you decide the risk is ok than fine. But the facts remain that all the safe sleep experts, reports, FDA etc. recommend against them.

You're not a bad mum at all but you do need to sort this out. My friend's nephew died doing exactly this, his head slipped down slightly whilst sleeping on his mum when she'd fallen asleep on the sofa and he suffocated it really is important.

By contrast to that FB pic, this is what a baby in a Sleepyhead looks like. It's nothing like the thing in that pic. The sides are nowhere near as high, there's no way for a face to get pushed or burrowed in as the sides are firmer (and it is breathable to at least a certain extent, as I've tested it) and the base is firm, not squashy like a pillow.

But I do agree that they aren't recommended, and we all need to do our own research into what we are comfortable with and take guidelines into account. I wouldn't have used a nest like the one on that FB page in a million years.

I did this for a good few nights in the beginning and always woke up in a panic until I checked she was ok. It happens when you are tired! I think the best way to avoid it is to keep the lights on and make sure you are not in a super relaxed position. Also make sure there are no cushions/covers close by her which could pose a risk. It's hard though. Hopefully she'll be settling better soon and you won't have this worry.

(It has a sheet over it in that pic as she was a spewy spewerton so I used a sheet for naps).

@Indella your screen shot is from the John Lewis website. Mine was from the Sleepyhead manufacturers. When researching safe products I would make an informed decision based on information issued from a manufacturer over a retailer.

Also, you're lumping all sleep pods into one and that's simply not accurate. Each product will differ in its own specifications.

As I've said previously, each to their own informed decision but sharing misinformation doesn't help anyone. None of the articles you've shared specifically mention Sleepyheads. There are undoubtedly unsafe products on the market. I don't understand why the Lullaby trust can't specifically name them in the article you link to.

I never intended to cosleep or bed share but my DS had his own ideas. After falling asleep a few times with him on my chest I ended up looking up the safe cosleeping guidelines and followed these - you can look up the 7 safe things poster from La leche league. I read Sweet Sleep by the same organisation and it talks about the safest ways to do this.
It's the most natural thing in the world for your baby to fall asleep on you (look up fourth trimester).

So the instruction manual on a retailer website isn’t trusted info, lullaby trust recommendations isn’t trust but the manufacturer trying to sell you the product is 🤔

They will never name the product for one simple reason. These companies have much bigger bank balances and many more lawyers than a charity does.

As to Sweden having a lower SIDS rate. The Swedish sleepyhead website states supervised sleep. Why would the guidelines be different based on what country it’s sold in? It depends on the advertising laws of that country.

Why would they have a different name in the USA? Why would a ‘safe’ product need to change its name to avoid bad association?

Everyone is capable of making their own mind up but blindly trusting advertising information isn’t the smartest thing to do. Just look at what Nestle did! Hundreds of deaths due to their unethical practice and still a multi-billion pound company.

I think people misunderstand the term "supervised" - and it is used very misleadingly there as well, because by definition night time sleep when the adults are asleep as well is unsupervised. But I think people assume that if you're in the same room it's somehow fine. The use of "overnight" and "supervised" together is usually an oxymoron. The fact is when parents want to know about overnight sleeping, they mean the time when they are asleep too, and therefore unsupervised. But they are covering their arses.

It is the same with the Fisher Price product which was recalled in the US. I'm in Germany and somebody had posted in our English speaking group asking where she could buy a Rock n Play as "everyone" she knew in the States used them for their newborns to sleep in, overnight! When she was asked for a picture to clarify loads of people said it didn't look safe - it keeps the baby at a 30 degree angle, plus it has a safety harness which is a complete no-no for overnght sleeping as it's a strangulation/entanglement risk. And sure enough a few years later, deaths associated with the angle of the product and the safety harness come out, the entire product is recalled and the company has to take a load of bad publicity. The thing is it was never a bad product, it was just entirely unsuitable for overnight sleeping. However it gained cult status specifically FOR overnight sleeping, because (allegedly) babies would sleep much better in those products than in a normal cot or crib. And Fisher Price profited from that and quietly ignored the issue of the danger parents were unknowingly placing their infants in. They even marketed their product as a sleep product, with just a small line of print explaining it was for supervised sleep only.

It is very sneaky if the manufacturers of these products are hiding deaths associated with them and not issuing proper recalls or different advice. The co-sleeper that had the death associated with it (Next2me?) totally rewrote their instruction manual, added warning labels to the product, made public statements and redesigned the packaging to make the images associated with it only show totally safe uses of the different modes. That, to me, is the responsible and ethical way to respond to a consumer death (or even accident/injury) - I have a hard time trusting companies who use misleading terms like "breathable" (which means nothing) and silly oxymorons like "supervised overnight sleep".

But I have to admit, that my assumption about the sleepyhead (and similar) is that they are about as bad as cot bumpers, which would (surely?) be a step up in safety from unplanned sofa sharing.

I forgot to mention both my DC were in Sleepyheads. I had read about some USA deaths when my second was born, but after her not sleeping well without it, I decided I’d rather she was happy in that, than what I felt was more dangerous in my bed. I take medication that means co-sleeping is unsafe. So I agree with other posters that we each have to decide what risks are acceptable for us in our specific situation. I decided a sleepyhead a a swaddle wrap were better and safer for my DC than co-sleeping, or me falling asleep with them in my arms.

EXACTLY Bertie! The manufacturers know full well how the products will be used and even advertise them to be used in ways they don’t recommended but then the small print gets them off scott free when it all goes wrong. The unethical practices of many baby companies is horrific and it’s no wonder unsuspecting parents end up confused. The U.K. advertising laws lets an awful lot slip that shouldn’t. You still see baby food advertised as from 4 months it’s well evidenced that food before 6 months increase the allergy risk etc.

@M0reGinPlease Here you go, straight from the horses mouth. Supervised!