To think we will never know the true numbers

[NovoJester]

... of migrants who have died whilst crossing the channel. I’ve just seen Ahmad Al Rashid’s (trustee of Refugees at Home) Interview and his Facebook post on his own journey where people died alongside him in a refrigerated lorry. A few others have shared their stories. I firmly believe not enough has been done to reduce these deaths and wonder if they have been grossly under counted and reported to authorities now.

Those poor people and their poor families.

What I don't understand is that one of the victim's family paid £30,000 for their daughter to be smuggled here. She is reportedly from Vietnam which is a safe country. If they had that kind of money they wouldn't be struggling to survive, so why would they want their daughter to come here for a better life?

I wonder if people choose the UK because there are no ID cards here and people have a better chance of going undetected.

If it were not possible to get a job or open a bank account or rent a property without an id card, and if the use or even possession of cash were made illegal, perhaps a lot of things that shouldn't be happening would stop happening.

Crime including people trafficking and the drug trade is facilitated by some of our freedoms.

What may seem to be a save country is not necessarily that save. India isn,t particularly save if your a Christian in hindu area, China isn,t save if your a muslim. Russia not save if your gay.

The speaking English aspect is massive. English is the most spoken second language in the world and even those without formal education in it will have been exposed to it through cultural reach eg films music etc. Of course people think they will have more chance of survival if they can communicate and more chance of professional advancement if they are proficient.

We do not have room. How can we do more? There are too many people. Syria was a collapsing state, an entire country. There are more countries on the march - millions of people. It is simply not possible. The Island of Britain already cannot feed more than perhaps 40 - 50 million people. In addition we have a bad distribution system based on social status rather than needs, that our own people already suffer from. We're about to turn away from our trading links. I think we all need urgently to stop looking at financial services' made-up banking sheets and look at the reality of resources - and we simply do not have them.

mamamia's point is also very relevant. Immigrants who make it here are the wealthy from their own countries.

They mortgaged their house to get her here so she could pay off the debt. Diesnt make sense at all. And in relation to previous post that even the poorest here is better off than people in Vietnam and China. I don't agree, many cannot get a mortgage or get on the housing ladder. Let alone get their family to find 30,000 whether that is done by remortgaging or not.

Anywhere the fact remains we need to stop these deaths happening, I believe the solution is thorough checks, stopping the criminal gangs from operating-- not open borders.

Very well said Pheasantplucker2. I agree with you. I wish there was more compassion.

That's why there are so many threads about being on the breadline and umpteen working families are living off of handouts and foodbanks then, hmm?

That’s a whole other story and has very little to do with how rich the country itself is. I’m sure the government are quite capable of sorting that it too. A better question would be to ask why the government haven’t sorted that.

I have an autobiography of a Rohingya disabled teenage girl who fled Syria. She has been in Germany for many years and wrote the book there. I don't want to spoil it for anyone but it is very good indeed and describes the war situation there perfectly and what it was like growing up in the midst of it.

Having read it, it seems far more real than what I've seen on TV. It's heartwarming to read the story of the courage and ingenuity of a young girl.

I have no difficulty believing that illegal trafficking and transport to Europe is business and care of the people they are moving has no place.

This is her:
www.unhcr.org/uk/news/stories/2017/5/58dd189f4/fresh-hope-germany-syrian-girl-fled-home-wheelchair.html

If it were not possible to get a job or open a bank account or rent a property without an id card, and if the use or even possession of cash were made illegal

Christ on a fucking bike I hope I never live to see that.

A lot of people forget that it costs a lot to get over to UK in such a way. A significant proportion of asylum seekers will be educated professionals.

My last career was In recruitment. I recruited in highly understaffed industries.

I have seen hundreds of well qualified Iraqi and Syrian Engineer CVs across my desk. Men at board levels desperate to get a job at entry level in Uk to avoid having to send their families over illegally.

UK companies cannot get VISAs for these men. Men who would within a few years be paying tax on £40k plus salaries. So instead they risk there families lives to get over here. If they get in they then can’t work at he level they are qualified to do so and then become a good economical drain rather than an asset.

These people have to pay about £30,000 to get here but they don’t have the money so the family agrees to repay the scum that organise the crossings. The people arrive and are mostly forced into the sex industry or slave wages and the family at home have to spend many years paying for their crossing. These people don’t just come in and get nice houses and take up the school places, it is much more dark than that.

The population of the UK has risen by 10 million over 50 years. Not as a lot of people seem to assume , 10 million overnight !

Omg the ridiculous comments from both sides of this argument

1- immigrants are people they deserve respect and to be treated humanly. We should care how many are dying and try and stop that Increasing year on year
2- the answer is not to “bring them over”, basic common sense tells you there are worse off countries to live in this world than better off countries. Or are we shipping the entire populations of Eritrea, Somalia, South America, etc over to Northern Europe.

I wonder if people choose the UK because there are no ID cards here and people have a better chance of going undetected.

We don't need ID cards for that - we need more checking.

In fact just issuing (and keeping up to date at huge expense) ID cards wouldn't stop bad things unless highly intrusive checking of ordinary everyday people doing ordinary everyday things was also introduced.

I'm ashamed to say I always believed in the 'we are full up' rhetoric about immigrants. This recent tragedy has made me change my mind- we are all one, all human. None of us want to suffer and that should unite us. I really hope this awful news has made people really think about their views on immigrants. I was surprised to see that the Dailyfail comments were mostly sympathetic and sincere. I really hope it makes people think twice before they 'other' people from different countries.

They mortgaged their house to get her here so she could pay off the debt. Diesnt make sense at all. And in relation to previous post that even the poorest here is better off than people in Vietnam and China. I don't agree, many cannot get a mortgage or get on the housing ladder. Let alone get their family to find 30,000 whether that is done by remortgaging or not.

It does seem like an unbelievably dangerous ordeal for someone to put themselves through when by the sounds of it, they’re by no means poverty stricken. But maybe as a pp said, the UK really is sold to these people as the land of milk and honey, where they can make an absolute fortune?

I definitely agree they should be allowed visas to work.

Aside from the blatant untruths in that statement, what I personally want is that my children grow up with an awareness of the wider world and an understanding of what might make people leave their homes and families to enter the UK illegally. I want them to understand their privilege in the wider world and be compassionate, welcoming adults who value difference with a desire to understand different cultures, religions, customs and traditions. I want them so try speaking different languages, eat different food, and have enduring friendships with everyone and anyone. I also want them to understand that what we have in this country - the long history of democracy, a healthy economy and welfare state - is something that could potentially disappear overnight and that it might be them some day seeking refuge in another country

This. We are born here by sheer luck. What type of life do you think these poor souls have that they think getting on a dingy or crammed in the back of a freezing lorry is the safer choice?
We are all human, all bleed the same. It sickens me to read some of the attitudes towards fellow humans.

If my life was so shit I know damn sure I'd be trying everything I could to get my babies to safety.

These people have to pay about £30,000 to get here but they don’t have the money so the family agrees to repay the scum that organise the crossings. The people arrive and are mostly forced into the sex industry or slave wages and the family at home have to spend many years paying for their crossing. These people don’t just come in and get nice houses and take up the school places, it is much more dark than that.

Ah - so it’s not a case of finding £30k upfront then. How sad that these people fall for the dream when the reality is often so very different.

I assume they come here because English is widely spoken and were a fairly safe, stable country.
Can't blame them tbh. We're extraordinary privileged in the UK.

To all the people saying - "We must have open borders, "there shouldn't be limits on immigration" - I live in the South East as well, and EVERY day, there are reports of dozens of migrants climbing out of trucks, plus the others who arrive on our beaches in dinghies.
To those who call them asylum seekers, if that is true then they should seek asylum in the FIRST safe country they arrive in.
The vast majority of these people are not asylum seekers they are economic migrants, who will add nothing positive to the UK.

We're extraordinary privileged in the UK.

@megletthesecond Tell that to the multiple homeless people I see sleeping rough on the streets of central London every day.

I think we have plenty of room. We should do more.

Remember this,,every single person entering this country is competing with you,your children and your grand children for housing,healthcare,school, food,water,energy,jobs and indeed space

Fucking hell. Imagine living your life thinking this way, that every other person is competing with you for housing, healthcare, school places, water.... what an awful existence it must be to look at other human beings and see them that way.