To think we will never know the true numbers

[NovoJester]

... of migrants who have died whilst crossing the channel. I’ve just seen Ahmad Al Rashid’s (trustee of Refugees at Home) Interview and his Facebook post on his own journey where people died alongside him in a refrigerated lorry. A few others have shared their stories. I firmly believe not enough has been done to reduce these deaths and wonder if they have been grossly under counted and reported to authorities now.

Those poor people and their poor families.

I'm blown away at how easy it appears to be to smuggle people in cargo. Disgusting that thorough checks aren't done at loading and then either the unit completely sealed or an internal inspection done on collection at every point the unit swaps hands. I understand there are time constraints but if I was picking up a unit and driving it across a continent I'd damn sure check it inside before taking it anywhere.

We are a rich country we can easily afford to care for these people. That the Govt. don't see fit to spend the money on these people and the poor in Britain is the fact of the matter. Don't blame the wrong people.

www.irishtimes.com/news/education/student-who-came-to-ireland-from-syria-with-little-english-gets-602-leaving-cert-points-1.3990071

Here's a good news story. Arrived 4 years ago with little English, got straight A's in her leaving cert and is going to be studying dentistry at Trinity College (probably the most prestigious uni in Ireland). She was a Syrian refugee. She even got an A in Irish FFS (I didn't even get an A in Irish having studied it since age 4).

But I don't think they were asylum seekers (they by definition are not refugees as they can only be this once they have applied for and gained refugee status) I think they were economic migrants. Time will tell, I guess.
I'm terms of European countries who have allowed migrants in, I believe countries such as Sweden and Germany now have their own problems in relation to this. I'm an ideal world, all things being equal, we would be able to travel and live anywhere and this would be lively. However, it doesn't work like this.

The UAE also take a lot of refugees especially Jordan.
What struck me as very sad was outside that lorry depot in Essex there was only about 6 bunches of flowers laid down. Compare this with the Manchester bombings when there was millions of flowers.
Also these poor people families paid 30K to get them here!. Its unbelievable.I think its sickening and really sad.

Remember this,,every single person entering this country is competing with you,your children and your grand children for housing, healthcare,school, food,water,energy,jobs and indeed space
Nasty xenophobic nonsense- and I live in ‘the full up’ South East with a green gap of nine miles to a garage and six to a village shop. It’s pretty empty hereabouts.
My children had no problems getting a very good education, good healthcare, jobs, houses. That’s mainly because they took personal responsibility rather than blaming immigrants for their own failings.
They are delighted to work alongside many immigrants who support our healthcare system and our armed forces.
If you or your children are finding it difficult, you aren’t trying hard enough.

I did wonder about, in lesser numbers than in this incident, but the possibility of other deaths that haven't been discovered yet both here and on the Continent - the organised criminals gangs who run this profitable trade are ruthless and perfectly capable of disposing of unknown bodies. Anyone who has worked in agriculture can work that one out.

A lot go to France/Germany. Obviously Italy takes the brunt, but we have feck all here in comparison.

we are a rich country. We could easily afford to care for these people

That's why there are so many threads about being on the breadline and umpteen working families are living off of handouts and foodbanks then, hmm?

First few messages I thought fuck I've logged onto the Daily Mail by mistake. Economic migrants? So what? How desperate must they have been, have you read the text messages that girl sent to her mum apologising for dying?

It beggars belief that people will come on and spout this crap, even anonymously.

I repeat that this is very sad and tragic.
Also, these poor people's families paid 30K to get them here is there any evidence of this?
If so, most likely they were economic migrants, what we need is better checks to stop these deaths from happening and to catch those involved in the trafficking business, not open borders. Then perhaps people would not risk their lives to cross borders for a 'better life'

The UK is seen as tolerant and welcoming, which is what can persuade migrants to make the journey longer.

The migrant 'crisis' isn't going away - it's just started. Most migrants are healthy young males who want a better economic life than they get in Africa.Women and children don't figure much, believe it or not. Given the vast increase in migrants expected, and the lack of housing and healthcare facilities, it makes sense to look again at the situation.

One way to reduce the entry numbers is to allot equal opportunity and diversity quotas to the annual intake - if you had to take a woman and a child for every working-age man, that would cut leave to stay permits in half.

A lot of European countries just don't let migrants in despite the EU rules, but some do, and they take a lot more than the English.

Overpopulation in the South East is a problem. It's not racist to call it that because the people it most affects are black and poor Brits. They're already at the mercy of the council's housing list, and waiting times in most boroughs are now upwards of 30 years.

Eliza we could afford to look after the people using food banks too. It is a political decision not to.

Remember the government found £100 million down the back of a sofa to put up “Get Ready for Brexit” ads. There’s money available when they want it to be.

...what I personally want is that my children grow up with an awareness of the wider world and an understanding of what might make people leave their homes and families to enter the UK illegally. I want them to understand their privilege in the wider world and be compassionate, welcoming adults who value difference with a desire to understand different cultures, religions, customs and traditions. I want them so try speaking different languages, eat different food, and have enduring friendships with everyone and anyone. I also want them to understand that what we have in this country - the long history of democracy, a healthy economy and welfare state - is something that could potentially disappear overnight and that it might be them some day seeking refuge in another country.

^ This. Completely this. The number of refugees reaching here is relatively small compared to eg Turkey, or even Sweden.

Remember this,,every single person entering this country is competing with you,your children and your grand children for housing,healthcare,school, food,water,energy,jobs and indeed space.

The people who are hogging the country’s resources are not those with empty hands asking for a little. It’s the ones with huge hands already full.

More than half the UK’s wealth is in the hands of just 10% of households. And in fact, 20% of the wealth is in the hands of just 1%.

In other words, a pound of every fiver in this country is owned by the same 1% of UK households.

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8239

these people pass through so many countries to get here, why not stay in one of those

They are fed lies by traffickers: that the UK is the land of milk and honey, that they will get a good job and a house, that they will be welcomed with open arms.

Remember the government found £100 million down the back of a sofa to put up “Get Ready for Brexit” ads. There’s money available when they want it to be. @noblegiraffe has nailed it; lets just cut and paste this over and over again.

As for 30 year council house waiting lists ... um, I wonder why? nothing to do with selling off the housing stock obviously, or not building council houses ... hmm, just cannot figure it out

rubyroot, one of the families said that they'd paid £30000 and I've seen figures of 25-30000 so I think it is accurate. Mind boggling that the traffickers have already given partial refunds to one of the families, what a messed up world.

the organised criminals gangs who run this profitable trade are ruthless and perfectly capable of disposing of unknown bodies. Anyone who has worked in agriculture can work that one out.

So lets get back to discussing this - the scum who traffick others. The OP actually asked what can we do. I'd say maybe more checks on lorries, look at the points of entry for this one, where did it go?

I am so sad to hear some of the unfeeling, uncaring statements about people JUST LIKE YOU AND ME.

What must it take for you to leave your home, your family, your country, knowing that you face an expensive perilous journey and possible death, and that you will be treated like shit when you get there. They must be fleeing horrific conditions - whether that is war, famine, torture, persecution, or "just" needing money to survive.

We wonder why there is so much dissent and unhappiness in the world, when we are so intolerant and so reluctant to share.

Even the poorest person on here, who struggles to pay their bills and put food on the table is 1000 times better off than these people.

There are so many (ignored) studies to show that the people who are so motivated to come to the UK add far more to our economy than they take. For every tale of someone milking the benefits system and bringing 40 of their friends and family to take our jobs/benefits/school place etc, there are hundreds of people quietly working, paying into the system and benefitting us.

Do you all not read about the likely labour shortages coming when we limp out of the EU? All the way up the job chain - from lack of farm workers, to care workers, to hospitality staff, to doctors, nurses and lawyers. The people dying in the back of the refrigerated lorries are people that could fill all those vacancies....

What will we all do when there aren't enough people to care for us - and remember, by and large they go into the caring profession in whatever capacity?

Why can't we be welcoming to people from all walks of life - stop assuming they are on the take and start supporting them to be a welcome and important part of our economy?

There are countless examples throughout the world that shrinking borders, creating a them/us mentality, putting in austerity measures, leads to more of the same.

The way the UK is going I think more and more of us are going to want to live elsewhere, but will no longer be able to move freely between countries. Unless you're one of the rich politicians that have directly benefitted from the Brexit debacle.

Immigrants travel through other countries and come to the UK for all kinds or reasons - family, friends, connections, jobs, because they speak English etc. If we all had to leave the UK because a war broke out here we wouldn't all just settle in France because it's the nearest safe country. Most people would go wherever they have contacts.

The simple fact is that we cannot house all the people in the world in Europe, or in the UK. It does not matter how desperate some are. This country is already one of the more densely populated in the world and cannot currently feed its own population.

It should also be said that if the UK collapses tomorrow, ignoring the reasons, how many of us would be looking to countries outside Europe for help, and how many of us would be welcomed anywhere else in the world.

The people who are hogging the country’s resources are not those with empty hands asking for a little. It’s the ones with huge hands already full.

That's true: but it means the rest of us are already fighting over crumbs. Does anyone not know that migrants can be exploited by the rich far more successfully than people who will argue and legitimately say, 'what's in it for me'?

A lot go to France/Germany. Obviously Italy takes the brunt, but we have feck all here in comparison.

@minorityreports Are you talking refugees, illegal immigrants or immigration as a whole? In 2013, the UK had the third highest immigrant population of all European countries, behind Germany and Russia but ahead of France. The UK was the highest of all these countries in terms of immigrants as a percentage of the national population (12.4%).

Source: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Europe

I appreciate those figures are from six years ago, and would like to see more up to date stats. However, I wouldn’t describe 7.8 million as “feck all”!

I think we have room. I think we can do more. I think we must find a way.

Even the poorest person on here, who struggles to pay their bills and put food on the table is 1000 times better off than these people.

The poorest people in Britain are homeless and starving. It's all very well the middle class rich going on about charity for people in far away countries. There is poverty here, that they like to claim does not exist.