To think we will never know the true numbers

[NovoJester]

... of migrants who have died whilst crossing the channel. I’ve just seen Ahmad Al Rashid’s (trustee of Refugees at Home) Interview and his Facebook post on his own journey where people died alongside him in a refrigerated lorry. A few others have shared their stories. I firmly believe not enough has been done to reduce these deaths and wonder if they have been grossly under counted and reported to authorities now.

Those poor people and their poor families.

Actually germany have taken a lot of refugees. But the uk is seen as an excepting country. And some of the refugees may be from old empire countries so there is a link there. Any one follow some of those programmes either early this year or last year following refugees. It was heart breaking. Families torn apart, pushed from piller to post. (not always by choice.) .

I suspect it's because we have a thriving black market, cash in hand economy. Those poor people who died in the freezer truck died because their smugglers knew they could be kept here as slaves, working in the sex and drug trade and money laundered through cash in hand businesses that middle class Brits use. I don't know why they don't stay in other European countries and do the same. Do they have tighter regulations? I don't know.

i've seen people climbing into the back of a lorry in a layby just before a roundabout under a flyover leading into the Port of Calais. If the people were genuine refugées I can't understabd why the don't claim asylum in France.

The other thing I don't understabd is that all containers lorries used to have lead seals on their doors and these were checked and updated at each stage of a journey (in a previous life I audited catalogue returns and had to know the process), but these seem to have stopped.

Well I don't want racists and bigots like you, Arnold, but unfortunately I'm stuck with them.

endofthelinefinally. Indeed. Tiny children living amongst rats and decomposing rubbish, in freezing conditions because their parents hope for a better life. People trafficking is big money. That is where the efforts to address migrant death should be focussed as opposed to individual migrants. These people in the lorry included children and beautiful young adults who were very much loved. I can’t begin to imagine the nightmare of knowing my children had died in such circumstances. I can’t imagine the horrors of being forced into slavery as a cockle picker in Morecombe bay only to drown.
If the world worked towards being fairer to all, there would be less need to leave their homelands. We are safe here in the U.K. only because of the luck of our birthplace; we have no right to condemn those who want similar opportunities.
The largest number of immigrants are Polish but they are here legally and fought alongside us to free Europe from the horrors of Nazism. Our health services, hotel industry, catering services, agriculture and many more areas of our lives are dependent on immigrant labour. They are as human as we are and immigrant lives are no less valuable than white British lives.

Full up?

@PralineCookies and... The NHS

YANBU OP Neither this nor previous governments has any idea how many people are actually here, what they are doing, how they got here and how many died on the way.

It’s awful, but I don’t think we should be spending any more money in trying to stop it. They will always try to find a way. This time, some of the parts with the method, nationalities, reasoning etc doesnt add up, I think there will be a lot more to this case.

YANBU. For people saying we're full etc only something like 12% of the UK is built on. Most refugees go to the country nearest them - in the case of Syria, this is Turkey. Some make it further, usually as a pp said because they hope they'll be more likely to build a life for themselves if they speak a bit of the language or know someone, even one person in the country. Ie they make the same decisions anyone else would do who found themselves stateless.

I went to a workshop for work the other week run by a refugee charity and it was really interesting to learn about the big picture. The majority of refugees settle in neighbouring countries, the ones coming to the UK are a tiny drop. There are about 70 million displaced people many who are often in camps for decades.

Depopulation is a problem in much of the country.

Usually in the areas which have been sucked dry of jobs and investment by the concentration of everything into London and the SE - i.e. the unbalancing of the UK and the ever increasing North/South divided.

This country is full up 😂

This poster cant have travelled much!

@MrsMaiselsMuff what has happened is extremely tragic and sad, but I think it isikely that the people involved were economic migrants, as are many people that come to UK. Seeking asylum requires that you are persecuted in your own country and there are channels to do this which does not involve paying gangs sometimes quite substantial amounts of money. We cannot open our borders, it's not feasible, we don't have enough houses built for the existing population for a start.

Remember this,,every single person entering this country is competing with you,your children and your grand children for housing,healthcare,school, food,water,energy,jobs and indeed space

We'd be absolutely stuck in some industries and services, were it not for migrants. My mum is looked after by carers in an extra care facility. Almost all of them are foreign. And the service is still short staffed. If they all go home, who is gooing to look after you in your old age, Arnold? Because oddly enough, most ethnic British people don't want to earn minimum wage dealing with old people's toileting needs.

And that's just one of many many areas where our lifestyle is dependent on people who've chosen to come to this country.

Other EU countries take many more refugees and migrants than we do.
Indeed, we do not take our fair share and do not treat them well. Remember Windrush? “These people” are just like you and me but much less fortunate in their origin. Who knows.....in 50 years people might be fleeing the U.K. in search of a decent life for their families.

@metalkprettyoneday exactly. People in the UK banging on about refugees coming over here want to go to the Turkish border and see what a huge influx of refugees really means. It's not just a few people getting on boats but entire ramshackle tent towns the size of Nottingham.

Incidentally the few who do make it further generally have a fair bit more cash as were previously earning more, usually because they had good educational attainment. These are the people who were doing well in their country of origin because of skillset or aptitude ie the kind of people who, being utilitarian about it, add value to an economy.

I agree with you. They come here because we offer so much
Nope. Not even nearly true. You need to educate yourself.

True asylum seekers don’t stand in the middle of war zones or avoid their torturers with their phone in their hand working out which country might give them the most money/housin/healthcare. They flee. And they end up where they end up. Have a look at some statistics. Our European neighbours take in more than we do and financially are more supportive.

My grandmother's aunt died on the Titanic. So I have a particular empathy for them I guess. I always think about her and how she would have been full of hopes and dreams for her future in America - her sister was already in America and had sent the fare over. She was third class so probably didn't stand a chance. That though was slightly more humane even than what we're witnessing now. The only thing I can compare it to would be the coffin ships during the famine where most died on the way.

When Turkey threatened to let the 3.6 million Syrian refugees it currently looks after into Europe in recent weeks, my first thought was ‘why the fuck are we complaining about the few that make it this far?’

3.6 million. Stop going on about how they ‘all’ want to come to the UK and should be stopping at other countries instead. Clearly most of them are.

Remember this,,every single person entering this country is competing with you,your children and your grand children for housing,healthcare,school, food,water,energy,jobs and indeed space.Is that what you want for your family and children?

Aside from the blatant untruths in that statement, what I personally want is that my children grow up with an awareness of the wider world and an understanding of what might make people leave their homes and families to enter the UK illegally. I want them to understand their privilege in the wider world and be compassionate, welcoming adults who value difference with a desire to understand different cultures, religions, customs and traditions. I want them so try speaking different languages, eat different food, and have enduring friendships with everyone and anyone. I also want them to understand that what we have in this country - the long history of democracy, a healthy economy and welfare state - is something that could potentially disappear overnight and that it might be them some day seeking refuge in another country.

If you see someone who speaks no to little English and has no formal education or qualifications as direct competition for your job, you need to push yourself a little bit and utilise the advantages you've been given growing up in the UK.

Syrian refugee camps in Turkey and Greece are absolute hell holes. Foreign aid rarely gets anywhere near an actual refugee.