To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

@Amber 😂

Extra points if you barge in singing "Word Up".

No seriously OP, it does sound like a sexist thing but could be this one bad apple, not company policy.

I haven't read all 600 replies () but I think what you need is one blazer to decorate the back of your chair. Wear it the odd time to get a coffee or go to the loo.

What an arse he is!
Glad you asked for it in writing.
I love the idea that wearing trousers is dressing “masculine” I think they entered women’s wardrobes in the 1930s.
He has a picture book view of the world doesn’t he? Is he equally thrown by houses without four windows on the front and a chimney I wonder.

As someone said upthread, I think he's on sketchy ground here. I do not see how he can enforce you wearing a suit. It sounds like his personal preference, not company policy.

Can I ask what sort of trouser are you wearing?

There is a difference between smart casual trousers and leggings, jeans, tracky bottoms or ones that expose your underwear or have ripped knees?

@cabbageking try reading the thread.

Did I miss something?

She said she was paraphrasing but that her dress was not up to standard. Be it masculine or feminine there was something amiss?
She can't remember what he actually said?

Is he sexist or is he correct? I was simply asking for clarity about her attire? If there have been several complaints were they just from him or other people?

OP has been quite clear about her attire cabbageking, ripped knees, jeans, leggings and tracky bottoms have never been mentioned by the OP

Yes, cabbage, you missed all the OP posts.

I've been one of the people asking MNHQ for a setting that only shows OP posts. Suffice to say, there's nowt wrong with her clothes.

Wow. What age is this man? It surprises me that anyone in management would be so naive about sexism.

A tenner says he doesn’t email you.

I love the idea that wearing trousers is dressing “masculine” I think they entered women’s wardrobes in the 1930s.

Longer than that for working women, if you look at photos of pit brow lasses from the 19th and early 20th century. Not that people really approved of such behaviour.

Id have asked then and there for specifics. You didn't so now you're guessing. What's the point? Taking it further is a good idea but they've got 'wiggle room' as you didn't call them on it. Now I bet they'll say your clothes aren't well ironed or, shoes scuffed etc.

@EBearhug a lot older than you think womens-fashion.lovetoknow.com/First_Woman_to_Wear_Pants#targetText=Eliza

So if you wear trousers it has to be a suit as trousers are masculine.

He's the sort that would have been scandalised by Amelia Bloomer, ffs.

To regard trousers as "masculine" shows that he is a) sexist and b) hasn't noticed anything that has changed in attitudes to clothing for over 100 years.

He probably thinks women should still ride side-saddle.

Do all the men always wear actual suits? Do none of them wear trousers and a smart jacket?

I bet some of the other women wear trousers too. With heels, and lipstick and other ‘womanly’ things.

He’s being a sexist dickhead, OP, and he doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

@DeeCeeCherry did you not see the update?

OP he's a sexist prick.

He's definitely on the back foot now OP.

If he does email, it will be very vague - there's no way he'll put 'either wear a skirt or try harder to dress like a man' in writing.

I don't think I'd be waiting for him to email tbh. I would summarise the two conversations in an email and send it to him asking him to confirm that it's an accurate account of the situation and his requests.

Say that you need to double-check that you've got it right, as you were unaware of the sex-specific nature of the dress code and want to seek clarification form HR.

I wouldn't want to be involving HR or escalating it, but I would be minded to make him self-reflect and sweat a bit.

great that he's going to put it in writing. It's sexist tripe and needs to be nipped in the bud. Check it with HR because you're still not sure about what the dress code should be. "if it's trousers it should be a suit" kind of thing is bullshit. How about if you just get a blazer?

If you were a transman what he said to you about your masculine clothing would be even more outrageous so lucky for him you're not (from what you said upthread).

Good luck.

I once worked for a retired Military Type Of The Old School (youth opportunities so right out of school) the PA was very experienced, good looking, slim woman in her early 30s. She came to work one day in an immaculately tailored trouser suit. And he tried to send her home for "dressing like a mechanic - ladies should wear skirts".

I seriously thought she was going to stab him in the eye with a letter opener.

Brefugee
He'll not put the whole thing in writing. The suggestions about wearing a skirt will never materialise.

My guess would be that either:

1. He'll keep to the reasonable point about levels of smartness and how female attire should be comparable smartness to men wearing suits, suggestions about wearing a jacket / trouser suit
2. He says nothing.

Go in with a fake beard and a cod piece. If questioned, tell him you got confused and thought the brief was to "dress in a more masculine fashion"
PLEASE DO THIS

Seriously, he won't email you. Email HIM. Put in all the shit he said. Politely mention that you'll check with HR too.

What I would do is pop down to the nearest charity shop and buy a couple of ties (which you should be able to get for a quid or so apiece) and wear one of those tomorrow.
(Ties are actually nice and I sometimes wear one with a shirt if I feel so inclined.)

But OP shouldn't have to do anything, other than send a quick email to put the wind up him.

This non-issue has already taken up quite a lot of her time and head space - it's him that should be pondering his own idiocy and squirming in front of HR.

Hi all, not much to update from today. No email as of yet, my manager is a 'very busy man' apparently but will get to it. I won't be buying any new clothes until I get the email confirming the sexist dress code. I have still been wearing what I usually wear and have had no comments either.