To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

Check that your (wrist)watch is the business- it's part of your personal branding and a big thing in male dress code

I thought it was just my bonkers husband that was obsessed by his three branded watches he owns. I'll make sure to tell him when he arrives home from his business trip later that it's his personal branding

I'll tell him as well that he must look around the office tomorrow morning to see the difference between female and male co-workers. I'm serious about this though because he never brushes his hair, it's a mop of blonde/grey but somehow suits him and he wears chinos, in fact he looks quite dishevelled and only puts a shirt and tailored trousers on when the top bosses come in from abroad. So I'm keen to know about the women there too now.

Lol, for a moment I read that as he was putting his tailored trousers on top of his chinos dragon.

I’m wondering what your posture is like? Sometimes if you slouch it can make you look a bit untidy. I’m also thinking that you are not very confident, it’s awful for your boss to be like he is being, Also ( and please please please don’t think I’m being judgemental or picking) do you wear ladies or men’s clothing? My daughter chooses to wear men’s clothing and it unfortunately does make her look a bit untidy (she’s a prison officer so it doesn’t affect her at work)
Sending to you because I’m sure it probably makes you feel very uncomfortable

Check that your (wrist)watch is the business

Ffs, I've heard it all now. It's plainly not enough to have a wristwatch that keeps time accurately and hopefully looks ok, it's got to meet some arcane criteria as a status signifier too.

Our CEO wears a Tintin watch.

If they’re saying you aren’t presentable and it isn’t your clothes, and some other women in the office (as you have said) don’t wear much makeup but haven’t had a warning... it only leaves a few options. It could be a ‘polite’ (beat around the bush) way of approaching hygiene. I’d ask for everything in writing though, as others have said.

Also 1940s female Hollywood actors often wore 'masculine' outfits, it was the fashion then: Lauren Bacall (love her!), Marlene Dietrich, etc.
And they looked stylish!

Katharin Hepburn was a master (mistress?) of looking good in masculine clothes. I've been trying to find a pic of her that I can see in my mind's eye - loose cut, high-waisted trousers and a manly white shirt - but the outfits she wore in The Philadelphia Story are the kind of thing I mean.

Actually I think what the OP describes as her typical work outfit is the equivalent of a cheap, shiny ill fitting suit. It's the difference between a sloppily tied polyester tie and a silk tie in a perfect Windsor knot. Both are ties but are worlds apart in terms of grooming and presentation.

I bet silk tie wearer is also worlds apart in terms of salary from his polyester tie wearing colleague.

LakieLady Diane Keaton springs to mind too.

I'm starting to wonder if this is all actually about something slightly different possibly concerning hygiene. I'm wondering if the OP launders her clothes thoroughly and regularly and is sufficiently clean in herself.

Some of the comments on this thread make me ashamed of being part of the female species. Long gone are the days where we should feel we have to be feminine to please the world. If you want to look preened and girly, then that's lovely. If you want to look less stereotypical then that's also lovely. I'm tall, haven't ironed in years, rarely wear makeup, sometimes do my nails, wear flats and never follow fashion rules. What I do is throw on whatever I feel comfortable in and own it completely. My wardrobe is full of charity shop bargains, clashing colours and patterns and I get complimented often because I wear it all with confidence. OP you sound lovely. Don't let the ridiculous comments drag you down. Get yourself a jacket, wear a funky work jumper, even throw a tie on if that's what you want to do. Be who ever you want to be.
33gettingbacktoresearch I'm loving those DM's and need those in my life!!

Fizz Fizz your questions have been asked and answered. OP's hygiene is good her clothes are clean and ironed.

Yeah this thread is an eye opener.
The number of women sneering at Asda shoes and cheap clothing is disgusting.
I am fucking grateful I don't work with the likes of you.

I was actually thinking is this about hygiene.
If you are wearing suit type trousers and a work style blouse then that is fine.
Is your hair clean?
Do you shower ?
Are your nails clean?
If so then I have no idea what it could be.

You need to ask your boss specifically what he means.
I doubt it is about wearing a dress and make up.

This is an utterly pointless discussion under the circumstances, though. Maybe OP's manager is a raging sexist who won't be happy until she put on a miniskirt and lipstick, or maybe OP does in fact look (or smell) shabby and sloppy and everyone else is sharp, thus making her out of step with the culture. Without seeing her and the office, it's impossible to know.

You can get ahead while being sloppy/dishevelled, but you have to be really good, better than someone who looks neutral or good.

Hi all,
Tbh I think some of these comments are a bit uncalled for. I have already answered this, but yes my hygiene is good, I shower daily, wash my hair every other day (it is actually gets greasy if I wash it every day), brush my teeth twice a day, wash my face using soap, and use anti-perspirant.

My clothes are always clean and yes I iron them. The only thing I can think of is that they are maybe not the best quality, I'm not particularly well paid so I can't afford expensive clothing or £120 shoes. The kind of job I do isn't very common so I'm not going to say as it may be outing, but I don't work in beauty or anything where appearance may matter more. My role is not customer facing.

To answer another question, I am not particularly overweight, not skinny either though! My brows are not 'groomed', I like them fine the way they are but they're not noticably wild. I suppose that could be the issue, most of the women in my office do their eyebrows, but if it is then sod that, I'm not ripping hairs out of my face for no good reason (in my opinion, if anyone else wants to do it great, not being snarky, just don't see the need to do mine personally)

Regarding nails, they aren't shaped with a file or anything, I don't see the need for that either and they're always cut short because otherwise I break them, but they're clean and tidy.

I will ask my colleage tomorrow and post an update when I have more information.

Katharine Hepburn and Diane Keaton. I've thrown Gwendoline Christie for good measure. She's over 6' tall and looks absolutely stunning.

If I were the OP, I'd hide this thread. So many insinuations that she's got hygiene problems. How incredibly insulting.

OP I'm willing to bet there are men in the office who don't do anything with their eyebrows either.

Hope it goes well tomorrow.

Now you've said you never have to meet customers, I'm even more incensed on your behalf, OP. What on earth does it matter what you wear, as long as the work is getting done to a good standard?

Hi op
I didn’t mean to be rude.
I would ask your colleague her opinion and then communicate via email with your boss so that you have everything in writing.

Are your clothes from places like Next Tall OP, if not it might be worth looking in the Next clearance section for work clothes as they normally have some all year round and I have got some good bargains there, also on the full price part of Next Tall some of the work clothes aren't too expensive. also LongTallSally might be worth looking at as they also have a sale section, their prices can be a bit high otherwise.

Hi op, good luck. I am wondering if it could be your hair. My natural hair always ends up looking a bit scruffy. I think I look odd with it tied back and I don't know how to do a bun etc so I don't really know how to improve it. Your clothes sound fine to me, assuming they're not ill-fitting and creased. Not wearing make up also sounds fine to me - though I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he meant. I once had a manager tell me I needed to wear more! I wear none these days and I prefer it that way.

My clothes are always clean and yes I iron them. The only thing I can think of is that they are maybe not the best quality, I'm not particularly well paid so I can't afford expensive clothing or £120 shoes. The kind of job I do isn't very common so I'm not going to say as it may be outing, but I don't work in beauty or anything where appearance may matter more. My role is not customer facing
I am sure you are OP. I think your boss is being a bit if a arsehole from your description, it doesn't surprise me many are also echoing arsehole attitude, I'd buy a waist coat in a charity store to jaz it up, tell him you've decided to take the leap like Sam Smith as non binary.
I am sure you look good, like a early pp mentioned, ask your boss for feedback.

Good luck tomorrow Op, I actually can't wait to hear what ludicrous things are said.

I refuse to rip my brows out either, great if others want to do it but I don't. The most I do is fill in the patches thanks menopause with a pencil because I look strange otherwise.

Stick to your guns if it turns out to be the 'you're not feminine enough' bollocks.

@Name1Changer123 best of luck tomorrow OP.
Please update, try and gather any sensible advice from the thread, go armed, I'd ask for a close colleague to be present if possible.

Our CEO wears a Tintin watch. He's saying "I don't need to dress up to a higher grade, I'm already no1"

Very depressing thread, this. Thanks goodness I've always worked somewhere where the dress code can be summed up as "fully clothed and reasonably clean".