To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

Lucifer, your hair sounds like mine, though I can't see the pic.

So what? It's a type of hair. Imma just go with it.

Ha! I have acrylic nails. My own nails don’t grow so acrylics make my hands look more finished than my own nails do. They change colour every 2 weeks after my salon visit. Blue, green, purple etc. They are short and neat.

The only comments I have ever received have been compliments about my nails, asking where I had them done.

And thank you to those agreeing with my post. I’m on my phone so can’t thank everyone.

And quite frankly, I don’t give a shit about hair. Frizzy, curly, long, fluffy. I could quote the lyrics from the musical, Hair. Why would anybody care?

Turn up for work, wear appropriate clothes and do the work we are paying you to do. That’ll be great, thank you. Unless your manager is a dick.

Why does hair have to be groomed? What's wrong with it simply being clean?

Should have said yanbu

I wear men's footwear and men's jackets because they are more comfortable and practical and often cheaper. I'd like to see anyone try to tell me I shouldn't do so.

I think it is fairly likely, at least, that OP's manager is a sexist prick who thinks she ought to look more feminine. the fact that this is not just unreasonable but borderline illegal doesn't mean that it never happens: plenty of managers bully and abuse and discriminate against staff.

Why does hair have to be groomed? What's wrong with it simply being clean?

Nothing, if you're a man. Again, Boris bloody Johnson.

Such a depressing thread.

Defining "smart" or "professional" by reference to a western white male standard is sexist and racist. Doesn't require the people enforcing it to have nasty sexist/racist thoughts for that to be true.

@Namechangeforthiscancershit

I'm glad to hear. You deserve all the tea and cake in the world!

I know exactly what you mean.
At risk of getting pounced on yet again, I would style my hair and leave the house for it to turn into a messy ball within 10 minutes.
Especially on humid days.

My dad (affectionately) calls me snowball..

@ginginchinchin

Well hair like the below would look a bit bonkers at work.

LolaSmiles

Please tell mehow an ill fitting shirt or trousers affect a person in an office doing thier job?!

Maybe they would look better in something else but why oh lord WHY would it be necessary to pull them up on fashion???

@Cleverplayonwords has it on the nose.

Cleverplayonwords - see, I'd love to share an office with someone who didn't give a shit about 'mad' hair - would give everyone else permission to be themselves

@YourOpinionIsNoted is spot on with the assessment of our Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition. Wear the shoes you want to OP. Dont be pressured in to spending more money just to please others.

Cleverplayonwords

You would definitely look twice. But if that is the natural state of a person’s hair, it shouldn’t matter. We should not be defining “professional” by one type of human’s natural appearance and then forcing everyone else to spend time, money, energy and self-esteem to fit. I think she looks lovely.

Furiosa
I'm not saying it stops them doing their job, any more than a man not wearing a suit would stop him doing his job.
Like it or not however there's workplace norms and if people would rather jump to "they're mean because I don't wear makeup" than "maybe they're being dicks but it's easy to get comfy and not realise that workplace attire isn't fitting as well, not looking as smart" then I'm afraid that's their issue.
I'm saying this as a woman who doesn't style her hair, doesn't wear makeup/wears minimal makeup, doesnt get her nails done, doesn't wear heels etc.

YourOpinionIsNoted
I'd expect men to be appropriately groomed too.

Though to be fair threads on workwear always make me feel I must have worked largely in sensible workplaces where most people, men and women, are dressed in a way that's appropriately polished and groomed for the workplace (although the norms may differ place to place).

Come on MN and suddenly nobody expects men to dress smartly for work and it's unreasonable to say "maybe feedback on your attire is sexist rambling bit maybe there's a point about smartening up to be had, none of us can say".

I've had gel nails (no extensions) for over a decade. It's just laziness because I only have to have them done once a month.

I've had nail nails my entire life. It's great. I never get them done anywhere.

Just go in dressed like Johannes Radebe OP, you'll be fine.

This thread has made me glad I'm a SAHM right now

OkayGoooouuuuuullllll
I don't blame you!

This thread makes me glad ive generally worked in common sense workplaces where most people are capable of looking at a dress code and environment and dressing accordingly (other than the usual types who think summer means professional dress for most, and casual summer clothing for a small group of women)

I agree Lola. Sometimes on Mumsnet people will argue all day that it's fine to go to work every day like you've slept in your ill fitting, mismatched clothes and anyone who argues is a slave to the patriarchy.

There are dozens of contributors to this thread and not one of us has seen OP's outfit to be able to say whether or not the boss has a point or is being unfair.

OP - YABU of course. Get out and buy yourself heels, a corset, a garter, some stockings and a huge bag of make up immediately.
And for god’s sake get your nails done.

LolaSmiles

You are back tracking. What DO you mean?

First day back after maternity leave wearing flat brogues and a cardigan, I'd carefully straightened my hair in an attempt to feel less frazzled. First comment from my colleague, oh why did you straighten your hair I love your curls (which are and a bit wild and not like the apprentice at all). I'm in a senior role and even my CEO (female) wears flat shoes and very little make up. Our job is stressful and impactful to the public, no one gives a shiny shit about where I get my shoes. I love my workplace and I'm glad I don't work with some of you.

OP, you're right to follow up in writing stating your understanding of the dress code and asking for specific examples of how you fall short of looking 'presentable and businesslike'.

If your manager has any sense, this should be the end to the matter because from what you've said he's going to be hard pressed to give any examples that aren't sex specific, which could end very badly for him.

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36272893]]

Those of us who aren't unimaginative conformists are more likely to appreciate the misogyny (and racism) of unspecific 'dress codes' though. With some employers it's more smug cluelessness than malice - those in senior positions who got those positions through 'contacts' rather than working their way up may simply never have considered the amount of money it costs to have regular hair appointments and wear fashionable clothing. If they've never done the job at 'shop floor' level, it may not occur to them that suits or high heels make it difficult or impractical to do the job you're being paid to do.
It's not dissimilar to those wanky academy superheads whose idea of 'turning round a failing school' is to change the uniform to overpriced 1950s ties-and-blazers which can only be bought from a single shop and are of shitty quality so need frequent replacement.

Furiosa
Not really.
I don't buy into the heels/makeup thing approach. I don't think work is a fashion show.

I do think it makes a difference to how polished and professional someone comes across if they wear appropriately fitting clothes that suit their workplace and that it's reasonable to hold men and women to a comparable standard in the workplace (and that does NOT mean make up and heels).

Some managers are sexist. I've shared an example where I'd been told that a dress and blazer was too feminine by a female manager who liked to work her way around all the younger female staff with comments.
Equally, sometimes it's reasonable to suggest to people that they smarten up or look a bit more presentable (and that doesn't mean pushing glam, make up etc).

Confusing the two is unhelpful and without us being in the OP's workplace none of us can say for sure.