To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

God what a depressing thread. OP has said she works in an office. Nowhere I have seen does she state her role. What makes everyone think she can afford expensive well fitting clothes? Because let’s face it, good tailoring is expensive. Maybe she isn’t well paid and needs to shop at say primark or Matalan. Try being over 6ft and buying something well tailored and polished on a budget. Maybe she is bloody doing the best she can! And all this picking her apart piece by piece is just pure brutal. All this groomed brows and all that. i’ve never done anything to my brows in all my life and it hasn’t hindered me! I am well respected in my profession because of the work I do, not because of how my brows look! Oh and I bite my nails too. A habit from an abusive childhood that I’ve never been able to break. I didn’t realise it ruled me out of working in a professional office. Guess no one told my employers either! I just thank my lucky stars I don’t work in some of the places mentioned on this thread. Guess they wouldn’t hire me anyway as I’m so unkempt! Truly a sad thread.

Asta Who says well fitting has to be expensive?

Serious question because online on MN there seems to be this view that most people should never be expected to have clothes that fit properly because money and it's not affordable to buy expensive clothes, and yet offline most people I know choose to wear clothing that suits them, fits properly and looks nice for the situation and that's across a range of budgets.
It's almost like I must live in a weird bubble where people manage to look nice and dress to suit themselves using a range of affordable high street, supermarket clothing, eBay and charity shops.

Arm yourself with info on the Nicola Thorpe case before your next meeting. If you are smart, as it sounds like you are, what they might be looking for is ‘more quintessentially feminine’, followed by a discrimination claim.

Loads of helpful stuff online on the NT debacle which you could throw in to show how off beat dress codes can be. She was sent home from work for not wearing heels. Nicola Thorpe didn’t sue (though certainly could have) but the company she worked for certainly lost out - see their horrendous previous dress code plastered all over the government committee reports which followed. I believe it is printed in full in one of the Annexures. It was an agency supplying staff to PWC...

Who says well fitting has to be expensive?

Who says her clothes don't fit? The OP described tailored black trouses and ironed shirts in a range of colours.

That said - if you are taller, shorter, larger or smaller than the mass produced standard sizes then yes, you do have to pay more to get reasonably fitting clothes.

Just remembering the meeting I was in today, all of us women, all of us at professional and managerial level. None of us wearing jackets, high heels, a face clarted in make up or 'styled' hair - mine was simply in a pleat down my back. A meeting that dealt with a lot of money making a good deal of difference to vulnerable people.

Though my clothing was commented on as we left the meeting... They all loved my dark blue, sparkly, Doc Martens which toned nicely with my shirt. 🤣

Some of the comments here sound like something out of a 1980s yuppie handbook.

@C8H10N4O2 OP hasn't said, and that's the whole point of this thread.

Her boss has spoken to her about not looking smart enough. He may have a point. He may be being unreasonable.

We don't know.

LolaSmiles

Holy.Shit...

not looking smart enough - she wears a clean, ironed blouse, black trousers and shines her clean black shoes. She showers daily.

This is the definition of 'presentable and businesslike'. Why do you not believe OP? Why should she post a photo of herself just to prove this to you?

At my place of work some dressed up as though they had just rolled out of bed ,this applied to both males and females they looked really bad,they were not presentable most of us were glad when senior management begun to enforce the dress code.
How can we honestly decide without seeing what you really looked like.

This is such a depressing thread.

Business wear is the code clean, ironed, smart simple clean lines especially if men are wearing suits? Nails and hair clean. well groomed. Not wearing trainers or jeans. More than casual wear.
Doesn't mean you need makeup if you are well groomed.

Not putting any effect into looking presentable implies there is more needed? Implies scruffy, lack of care perhaps?

And if anyone on my team started coming into work wearing disheveled clothing or not looking professional when they did previously, the first thing I would do is to talk to them to find out why and what I could do to help. I’d be worried about them.

The last thing I would do is to refer them for disciplinary action. That’s a really shitty thing to do and a total managerial cop out.

It's pretty impossible for anyone to say without seeing an actual picture of you in your work attire or your manager being a bit more precise about the issue.

I do think some people just look scruffy, my uncle being one of them, he always looks a scruff, his suits fit, they are always ironed and clean, he just doesn't pull up off well.

But in general you don't need to spend a fortune to look presentable.

if you are wearing a white shirt, it needs to be bright white not washed out.
Trousers tailored, not too tight so you are bulging and not to loose they look scruffy
Shirts pressed and again not too tight they are gaping and bulging but slightly fitted and again nit washed out.

You should not be judged on no make up or not having a styled haircut, so long as you are clean, hair clean and nails clean.

@ThreeLittleDots

Actually, Mhairi Black did speak about getting told by Alex Salmond that she needed a make over and he arranged for someone to take her shopping for new clothes. She quite rightly told them No.

The OP’s clothes sound fine. If she’s really worried, I’d ask a friend for an honest opinion but she seems perfectly happy and confident with how she looks.

I'm not sure what the point of this is. None of us know why your work has a problem with your clothes and you don't know either.
I wouldn't assume 'presentable' meant makeup and dresses.
But I also wouldn't assume from the brief description you've given that your 'presentation' is fine. You can wear shirt, trousers and brogues in different ways depending on fit, cleanliness, styling (eg tucking in or out; scuffed shoes or not, etc).Just ask your boss for clarification. They'll be unwilling to be openly and overtly sexist.

I wouldn’t blame OP for not posting a picture. I think there are people on this thread determined to make it her “fault” however she looks. I certainly wouldn’t post a pic if it was me, having seen a lot of the responses. And if she blurs our her face and her clothes look fine, people will pick on that and say maybe it’s your brows or your hair but we can’t see those. I don’t think OP can “win” with some people at this stage.

Ultimately any dress code should be just that. There should not have to be any level of “polish”. If you are clean/fresh and abiding by the dress code, you have fulfilled the requirements. Anything else is window dressing and unreasonable to enforce.

Actually, Mhairi Black did speak about getting told by Alex Salmond that she needed a make over and he arranged for someone to take her shopping for new clothes. She quite rightly told them No

FFS! Good for her

Really katycarr? What, like the agency supplying pwc weren’t meaning to be sexist by giving their female staff prescribed Make colour palettes and heel heights? You are naive at best.

Not read all the replies but I’m thinking they are being OTT?!!! It’s not like you’re wearing jeans and a leather jacket for goodness sake!

I don’t understand why it really matters either unless you’ve got meetings with outside colleagues, the perhaps I could understand a colleague needing to pull out all the stops but just to work on a day to day basis in a back office role, I thinks it’s ridiculous!!!

Those suit jackets that are tailored can be really uncomfortable and restrictive. Tell him it’s more practical and you work better dressed as you are! 😉

Is the EY again?!

"if you are wearing a white shirt, it needs to be bright white not washed out."

Ffs.

OP. What do the men look at work? Are they all styled like men out of a GQ magazine?
Women do get a tougher time with their appearance.
I see men at work settings looking really shabby - ill fitting suits, knackered shoes, bad hair cuts.
But they seem to breeze through the “boys club” setting. It appears okay for them to look unattractive, but women must work harder. It’s so frustrating.

OP - you just need a jacket.

@cleverplayonwords O.M.G. That's my hair!

Are you very overweight, op?