To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

They probably want you to look like those ridiculous women on The Apprentice but don’t want to actually say.

You sound fine OP though what do I know as I leave the house with my frizzy, curly hair and don’t tie it in a bun or straighten it to death.

If your clothes are clean and ironed and your hair is neat then I don't see a problem. I wear a lot of makeup and dress quite feminine (whatever that means, dress and tights I guess) but I wouldn't judge a woman who dresses like you. I work with a colleague who wears trouser suits and very little makeup and she always looks very smart.

Is your boss a man or a woman?

Without seeing what you actually look like it's going to be hard to say. I don't mean this to be personal at all but there's a chance, of course, that you might think you look fine when you don't. There are people who walk around stinking of BO and don't realise, or people with terrible dress sense and don't realise, for example.

I just need to say in addition to previous posts that this thread has really pissed me off - from 'your shoes are men's' to 'nice dresses, full makeup and ridiculous nails are needed' to 'Do you shower daily' to 'what's your BMI'

None of these are relevant to the OP.

I'm unable to see Lucifer's pic

It really isn't helping anyone that women are being taught to iron their hair. I remember in the old days, when I had to actually enter shops, people would jump at me trying to promote straighteners. Horrendous.

@ShowYourselfLucifer

But can't you see this is internalised racism, no matter what race you are?

Non straight hair is 'bad' and 'not presentable.' It's up there with oral hygiene, so having non straight hair is 'dirty'.

Think about it. The culture we live in values whiteness, dolls for a long time were white with blonde hair. There was a heartbreaking clip doing the rounds on social media a while ago of black and white children asking to choose the 'pretty' doll between a black doll and a white doll. The children all chose the white doll.

We need to be moving away from this bullshit. straight hair isn't better than curly hair, anymore than blue eyes are better than brown

Been there!

@ShowYourselfLucifer thank you, I'm very well looked after and yes plenty of tea and cake. Probably too much.

When I did have hair it was so rubbish and flat. I'd spend ages curling and styling it, look ok in the house then 5 minutes after leaving it was straight again SUCH a waste of time but I couldn't help myself!

Can't wait to hear the boss clarify their dress code.

I'm unable to see Lucifer's pic

Nor I. I'm chomping at the bit here.

Agreed but look at how many responses have given advice on how to look ' presentable' .

Straighteners rarely come near my hair. Some mousse, maybe some serum and a round brush makes it less frizzy. Tamed hair doesn't have to equal straight. I dont agree with ironing your hair.

I am tall and have large feet (around your size) Totally understand that while you can occasionally find size 10-12 shoes costing less than £££s, they tend to be very poor quality and uncomfortable. I watch the Magnus or Crispins sales like a madwoman. Otherwise I wear smart leather men's shoes, in narrower styles.

If I'm not careful I can go a bit clothes-blind about my own clothes and not notice if they've become too saggy/shabby. I now make myself relegate work clothes to "home only" regularly and if I'm not sure I get a (brutally) honest view from my sister.

A genuinely smart good quality cardigan can be a wonderful thing in the right shape for you - but a big shapeless one is going to be the opposite of helpful.

I don't subscribe for one second to the "make up and heels" version of presentable, but what suits us does change (and so does our age and our shape, unless that's just me) we can all sometimes benefit from another opinion from a trusted friend. I don't suppose the other people in the office would necessarily choose to dress the way they do outside of work, but it's a kind of uniform for everyone, just a bit trickier when the terms are vague. I hope you get a sensible answer from work and I'm sure only small changes will be needed - or possibly none if they're just being idiots.

What glacecherry said. Straight hair = professional may not be racist in of itself, but it comes from the racist position that sees Caucasian norms as the best and anything else as lesser.

seaweedandmarchingbands
Being polished is a standard part of professional dress though, for men and women.

I wouldn't be assuming a narrow feminine view at all if someone suggested I smartened up, unless I had actual evidence that they were pushing their sexist attitudes on me.

Apologies for the bitty quotes but I think we agree on what is a professional look we just differ on polished, I think.
Fitted clothing, rather than clothing that fits I'd say well-fitting clothing would be the professional standard. Nothing to do with fitted or tight.
a made-up face, rather than a clean one whereas I'd say clean with or without minimal makeup is polished and professional, heavily made up would have been more of an issue in most places I've worked (though this thread has been interesting on makeup)
heels, rather than flats I'd just say polished means smart shoes that are appropriate for the workplace. Too high is as ridiculous as more casual shoes.
Straight, styled hair, rather than clean hair,neatly done I'd say polished and professional would be clean and neat. Overly styled hair that leads to the owner always flipping their bangs, flicking hair out the way suggests to me they've not considered the workplace
accessories that cost money (shoes, bag, scarf) they don't have to cost lots of money, personally I've got a couple of comfy pairs of shoes for work and one bag.

I think we agree on the standard accepted neat look on the whole (and I definitely can't be doing with pushing the make up heels look)

Op

Can you post a picture of youtself in your work clothes please, with your face blanked out, but how you'd normally wear your hair?

I think then it would be easier for people to advise.

I looked at the longtallsally link someone posted in the hope that I might find a nice pair of winter shoes for my size nine, xxxxxwide feet. Nothing. Not. A. Thing. So, it's back to my usual online supplier and the (usually in vain) hope that this season they'll do something that fits and doesn't look like something my long dead grandmother would have turned down in the basis that it was old fashioned and clunky. I can't remember the last time I got even a basic pair of shoes for less that £70, and as for something special - forget it. If my manager had an issue with my shoes, my response would be that unless she was prepared to pay for something in my size and to her taste, too bad. Large feet are not a choice.

Again, at no point did I say OP should iron her hair.

You cannot see the picture that I've posted so you cannot tell what I'm trying to say.

My hair is neither curly, nor straight.
It looks like I've taken a fork to the nearest live plug socket.

Naturally curly hair is beautiful, naturally straight hair is beautiful.
BAME hair is beautiful.
Mine fits absolutely zero of those categories.
If it was big and curly I'd not have to do anything. If it was straight I'd not have to do anything.

Mine is not defined, it has no shape or style, it has no type, it just looks messy. I have lots of hair and it's quite fly away too.
Unless you're able to see the picture you'll continue to get the wrong idea about what I'm saying.

It looks ridiculous. It has to be tamed before I go to the work environment so that it looks tidy.

@InsertFunnyUsername

Exactly. Thank you.

what suits us does change (and so does our age and our shape, unless that's just me) we can all sometimes benefit from another opinion from a trusted friend

OP hasn't mentioned anything about this though. Indeed, even if she had, I wonder if a man who had put on weight and his shirts were fitting really tightly, would get called into the office to be reminded to look 'presentable' though.

Lola:

Which is all fair enough. But I have worked in the City as well as out of it, and “polished” there can very definitely mean make-up, heels, nails done, hair styled, thin! This is fact. So workplace dress codes and managers really need to be specific: we expect X, Y and Z. If those expectations are sexist, they need this pointing out and they need to change.

99 to 1 it's sexism. Your style sounds fine to me unless all the men are wearing suits in which case I'd probably add a jacket.

Tell you what I'd do OP. I'd make a token "effort" e.g. hanging a jacket over the back of my chair, wearing a silk scarf cravat-style. Either that shuts them up or at least it demonstrates willingness and if they speak to you again you can politely push for wtf they mean.

I'm retired now but in my last working year earned over £100k. I didn't wear make up or dye my hair, groom my brows or varnish my nails. I wore trainers every single day because they're comfortable. I did my work exceedingly well and no one would have ever commented on what I wore for work (which was clean and tidy but not expensive). It's so sad that women on this thread are basically commenting that the op isn't forcing herself to be more dressy up to fit in. She's fine as she is!

ShowYourselfLucifer

I think it’s sad that you have taken society’s dodgy, toxic messages about appearance so far inside yourself that you describe your natural hair as ridiculous. Genuinely.

Until the op posts a photo then we have no real clue how to answer her original question

@Glacecherrychops

Again, it's not about straight hair. It's about groomed hair.

I used ironing as the example. My mum also used rollers and heat to help me style my hair.
It's not about the style being straight. It's about it being tamed away from a fly-away, poofy mess.
By that I mean, no style, no shape, no definition, just a ball of mess on top of my head.

I don't know how many other ways I can put it.