To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

Are your clothes ironed and well fitting?
If men are to wear a suit could you add a jacket to your outfit so it's the same leave of smartness?
Are your shoes clean and business like?
Shirt tucked in?

I was wondering the same as above. Do the other women wear jackets or more suit like outfits? Am assuming clothes ironed and hair tidy too. I wear very subtle makeup, do the women there wear night type looks?

Did you ask for specifics of what about your appearance your manager is commenting on?

You need to follow up the meeting in writing (email) reiterating what was said and asking for specifics on what is considered ‘presentable’, as this is clearly very subjective.
Sit back & watch him flounder

So why didn't you ask ...

'What is it about my appearance do you feel is making me not presentable and what do you suggest I need to do to improve?' ?

(Or her!)

Yes, my first thought was that if you wear a jacket (so you're basically mirroring the male outfit) would that make you look more "presentable"?

Also, "blouse" covers a wide range of clothing - are they sort of blouses that you might wear with a suit, or more casual?
Similarly there are black trousers and black trousers - are yours tailored or more casual?

Get it in writing. Send an email for them to clarify what they mean by presentable and in what way you are not adhering to their 'presentable dress code.'

I would ask them to clarify what is ‘presentable’ and to tell you what you are failing from their definition.

If it is a make up / skirt issue, then if they’ve got a brain cell they’ll shut up.

If however the problem is dirty / unkempt clothes, BO, dirty hair/ fingernails etc... then they should tell you.

Per PP, ask for specifics.

Post a photo, if you're feeling brave.

I think it’s impossible for us to say.

Clothes ironed , clean and well fitted, shoes clean and smart ? Hair tidy , nails clean, good personal hygiene ?

There is a blouse and trousers. And then there is a smart blouse and trousers. Like others have said, are your clothes clean, ironed and blouse tucked in? What kind of trousers are you wearing? Suit trousers or fashionable ones?

I doubt it's your lack of make up, and more likely that you're at the casual end of 'business casual' My first job was working in an office where men and women were both expected to wear suits. If men are expected to wear suit jackets, I'd assume women should be wearing a suit jacket with trousers, skirt or dress.

I wouldn’t be too hasty to assume it’s lack of make up, dresses and heels, tbh.

Having said that, you’ll need to ask them outright what is lacking, in their opinion.

Hmm, kinda need to see an example of what you wear

Post a picture of your usual work outfit so we can assess! 😊

Did they not give specifics? If not, ask them in writing is possible what they feel like you need to work on.
If it's make up and high heels then they are BU and discriminatory, if it's something along the lines of you need to look more presentable i.e more of a suit like attire rather than just a blouse then I'd say that's acceptable. You need to know the facts before jumping to conclusions.

Say you ID as non binary and go about your day just as pp have said ask for specifics because if you are in presentible work clothes then there is no wiggle room for them and they are probably being discrimatory (sp)

Wear a jacket?

‘Oh, I wasn’t aware I wasn’t following the dress code, can you share with me some examples of when I wasn’t ?’

Preferably armed with dress code policy and a note book & pen.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable).

Well the question has to be, are you presentable? Clean clothes with no creases, shoes not scuffed, hair washed and tidy, general cleanliness and good hygiene?

This is the kind of blouse I usually wear. Not always white though, I have a few different colours. My trousers are just regular work trousers, tailored but not skinny leg either. Most women in my office wear dresses or skirts, sometimes with a cardigan. They seem to mainly wear heavy makeup though there's a few who don't.

I did ask why and he kind of just gave me an evasive answer about everyone needing to look like they've made an effort. I will follow up in writing though.

We can't say as black trousers and a blouse can be a few very different outfits.

Some of my colleagues wear black trousers and blouse but they're not brilliantly fitted black trousers, their shoes are more casual and their blouse is more like a casual day blouse. Personally I don't think it's a put together work look and think it looks like they cba.

Other colleagues wear well fitted black trousers, lovely blouses (chiffon or cotton), a well fitted cardigan, but mainly a jacket in alternative colour, their shoes and accessories look put together. It's not about heels or make up

It's a bit like how men can wear shirt, tie and trousers and look suit smart or more casual.

Women's dress codes are often more open ended but I do think that leaves room for female colleagues looking less smart than male colleagues and then complaining when it's mentioned.

If men wear suits then there's smart trouser suits that might be more what they are thinking is appropriate

I agree you need more information about exactly what the issue is and preferably in writing. It could be valid or it could be a manger overstretching their responsibility. I once got a talking to for not putting enough effort into being a team player and when pushed the only example she could come up with was that I didn't put anything into a birthday collection for her favourite employee.

Some repliers will assume it’s about makeup and heels, get very cross on your behalf, and advise you to change nothing. That could be bad advice. I wouldn’t assume anything tbh. You need to ask for clarification. They may have a point, they may not.