To think my work are trying to penalise me for not wearing makeup or dresses?

[Name1Changer123]

I work in a large office, there is no official dress code or uniform but men are expected to wear suits, and women 'to look presentable and buisnesslike'. I'm not girly and I don't like dresses or skirts so I usually wear just a blouse and ordinary black trousers. I never wear high heels or makeup because I don't feel the need to alter my face every morning and I can't walk in high heels.

A couple of times comments have been made about making sure we look presentable, seemingly directed at everyone in general so I just ignored them as I presumed I did.

Well this morning I was called in for a chat with my manager who said there had been a few comments that I didn't seem to be putting any effort in to look presentable and could I make sure I'm following the dress code (which is just to 'look presentable). Yes I basically just wear a blouse and trousers every day, but surely that is business like? The only reason I can think of why I'm not 'presentable' is my lack of make up. I'm literally the only one who doesn't wear any. There are ladies in my office who wear a blouse and a skirt and they never seem to get told off so aibu to think my office is trying to get me to wear makeup?

I often wear outfits very similar to the one you describe OP, including brogue type shoes, never had any trouble with not 'looking smart'.

I don't wear make-up, as I'm usually not awake enough in the mornings.

My hair is well cut, I'm usually wearing decent earrings, nails are neat, and I always wear my favourite perfume.

I find that a suitable scarf can make the whole thing look more tied together.

I would think if your trousers are well cut, fit you properly and changed frequently, with a nice blouse, that also fits well and is clean, there should be no problem.

The kind of blouse you’ve posted a picture of is designed to be worn under a suit jacket. On its own it probably looks a bit unfinished. What type of shoes are you wearing from the men’s section? Nice brogues would be smart and on trend but a more basic men’s shoe might look odd. What do you do with your hair? What’s your bag like? Are your nails clean and shaped?

I think what the OP wears sounds fine. What is wrong with black lace up shoes? They may not be to everyone's taste but as long as they are polished (OP says they are) then what is the problem?

I also don't see how anyone can compel her to wear a jacket either- I am always having hot flushes at work and if I was forced to wear a jacket I would spend all my time taking it off to cool down . The OP says there is a dress code, not a uniform, so here has to be some flexibility in the way people interpret it. Plain blouse and trousers are a classic combi for work.

Are you Eleanor Oliphant?

Impossible to get ladies shoes in that size without spending a fortune and why should I when I can get the same thing in the men's?

I'm sorry op, but you are making excuses. I'm 6', my daughter is 6'1, and we both wear size 12 shoes. They are not impossible to find and they do not cost a fortune. Loads of places and online stores sell size 12, in extra wide as well.

Your manager was BU by not being specific about what he meant.

You were BU by coming away from that meeting none the wiser and asking people on here who have never met you to speculate on what he might have meant!

Are your nails clean and shaped?

Fair enough the other stuff, but this has nothing to do with the price of fish. As long as the nails are trimmed and clean, they are business-suitable.

Too much of the performance women are expected to put on for the office is about gendered ideas of attractiveness, not looking presentable. What is the issue with the natural shape of a fingernail?

What did you wear for your interview with this company? You got the job so they must have been happy with your standard of appearance then? Do you wear similar to what you wore at your interview? Because it sounds to me that’s the standard they would expect from you.

And what is the issue with a “man’s” shoe?

Definitely ask for specifics, in writing. It sounds like your manager is a sexist who thinks that female staff should look feminine ie their appearance should be less comfortable and take more time to produce. But he can't actually state that or he will get sued. Be absolutely civil and sweet with your questions and watch the needledick fucker squirm.

(If it is the case that they want you in a suit, hit the charity shops in the wealthier end of your neighbourhood for cheaper posh/boring clothes. You only need two or three suits and five blouses or so.)

Presumably it's not a client facing role?

Do you shower every day OP, as in not necessarily wash hair every day, but get into the shower every day?

I second the shoe comments. Just get lady shoes to fit, online or what a PP suggested.

seaweedandmarchingbands
I thought that poster meant shaped as opposed to raggedy or bitten right back because they look scruffy on men and women.

LolaSmiles

Ah. I thought that poster meant shaped with a nail file. Never seen a bloke do that for work, or been told (as I have seen many women told) that a “good manicure” is essential to being presentable in the workplace.

Well im inclined to believe you op. They say dress more smartly but i think they mean be more conventionally female.

Second asking them to put it in writing.

It's posts like this that make me v glad to have a uniform to wear.

I don't wear any make up and can't see me ever finding the time to get to grips with it enough to not look like I've had my face painted!!

I think the only person who can clarify this is your manager. I would ask for specifics and get it all in writing.

Where do you work?
I work in a bank and if I saw a woman with no make up or nails done no hair style, wearing average black trousers and a shirt with mans shoes I would be surprised.

Women where I work have styles hair, make up, gel type nails, fashionable long dresses with matching jackets and flat shiny black ballet shoes or ankle black heeled boots

You'd stand out a mile where I work.

And what is the issue with a “man’s” shoe?

That they're usually hideous, even on men? Seriously, when have you last looked down at any office blokes shoes and thought "Oooooh, I wish I was wearing those..."???

You can get some reasonable priced shoes on line in larger sizes. Ok they are dearer than Shoe zone but not much different to Hotter or the equivalent. Mens shoes cannot look great on a woman.

OP doesn't need to wear LADY shoes if her shoes are polished and in good repair. She doesn't need to wear lipstick or jewellery. Shirt and trousers are fine as long as they are clean/ironed. Any 'requirements' above this are unreasonable and possibly illegal. OP could in fact have a bit of fun by scaring management as to the possibility that they are being gender-identity-insensitive or something.

loops2019

That doesn’t make it right. Presentable shouldn’t mean fashionable, or made up, or hair styled in a particular way. Why should it?

1. what industry is this?

1. If men don't have to wear make up/heels then neither should you - that's sex discrimination. Your non make-uped face is not offensive or unpresentable. Neither is your natural height.

Are your clothes ironed and well fitting?

Seriously, when have you last looked down at any office blokes shoes and thought "Oooooh, I wish I was wearing those..."???

Probably the last time I wore a three inch heel.