to wonder why so many MILs seem to be absolutely and utterly bonkers?

[MILfatigue]

I've just read the thread about the MIL kicking off about a bank account for DGD, and have also been following the one about baby stuff being donated prematurely.

My own MIL has, for the last 18 years, veered, completely unexpectedly and inexplicably, between being lovely, lovable, generous and great company, to being really moody, trying to pick fights with me or subtly bully DD behind DH's back, and generally being very mean. It's like two different people! I can never predict what will bring out mentalist MIL. Don't get me wrong, she's not a patch on some of the MILzillas one reads about on here, but it is still baffling and upsetting.

Problem MILs seem to be such a frequent thing and on MN particularly. Are there any broad theories on what causes this? In my case, I used to think hormones, but that ship has long sailed. Is it just an age-old conflict, has it got worse recently, or is it worse on MN?

Genuinely curious.

It's the law of nature, the younger female in the pack has to oust the older influential female in the pack, to mark her newly elevated place with a mating male. Same as gorillas or chimpanzees or wolves or big cat groups. No matter how much they work together for the pack, there comes a time where the older female getting weaker with age is shoved out. However in some groups the wisdom of the elder is respected i.e lions, elephants.

I also think as a poster @MintyMabel mentioned Dangerous to assume MN is in any way reflective of real life so there is a statistical skew here on people saying awful stuff about MILS, because they are at their wits end with particularly difficult individuals and are prone to post; or because as a poster only ever gives one side of a story, projection and backup ensues. I do love a good MIL thread where people can read between the lines that the DIL is the issue .

@LightDrizzle brilliantly put.

I can’t stand my MIL. She is the most self absorbed person I know. She ruined our wedding day by being in a mood about where some of her family was sitting, that we didn’t choose the flowers she wanted, she then gave away our flowers and table centre pieces to her sisters without asking and was rude to my parents . I never know when she’s going to semi normal or absolutely rude. She’s also a complete tight arse and never brings anything when she comes to stay but is more than happy for us to pay for everything when we are out in town. The worst.

I have a thread running atm 😱

I think part of this is that men (and I'm speaking generally here obviously not all) are a bit crap at communication. As a pp has said women are often expected to do the whole organising of the family etc thing and staying in touch (wrongly!). So when dh doesn't communicate it becomes the dils issue. If we didn't get bil a Birthday present for example, it would be me who is blamed not dh. I find this greatly frustrating.

As my other thread shows I do not get on with mil, however I do feel sorry for her at times. I think it is probably easier for her to blame me for dhs lack of interest than it is to accept that he just hasn't thought. So when he doesn't ring it's easier to say that's me stopping him, rather than have to think her son just hasn't bothered. I hope I'm making sense here!

We met at university and dh was just becoming an adult so to speak and moving away from the child of the family dynamic, mil often says I 'whisked him away' when the reality is he had just grown up.

I also think I would happily pick up the phone and chat with my mum because she is a like minded female and we would talk about similar interests whereas dh and his mum do not have similar interests...what 30 something year old man could natter to a 60 odd year old woman for hours? So mil blames the poor relationship she has with her son on me rather than on dh.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm letting dh off here, he's crap for ringing etc and keeping her in the loop but his excuse is she is too much hard work and caused too much drama. :-(

God I've rambled sorry!! I often try and figure out why mil is the way she is but unfortunately I haven't ever reached an answer. I was desperate to get on with her at the beginning but 14 years down the line I'm afraid I've given up. Yes you are only getting my side, no I can't say I've been totally innocent over the years (I have bitten a few times when she has wound me up) but I can honestly say I've always maintained a polite relationship with her. I never want my dh to ever be able to say I haven't facilitated a relationship with her.

@LightDrizzle agreed!

Same as gorillas or chimpanzees or wolves or big cat groups

Centuries of evolution have stopped us from being affected by such primal bullshit, same way we don't all shit in the street and eat fleas off each other.

@angell84 lol, bless, look I get being called out on your sexism and ageism can be uncomfortable but there's really no need to have such a poor comeback as "who dragged you up" - at least have the common courtesy to put some argument and intelligent into your post back to me.

And yet all these bonkers MILs managed to raise a son that the wife loved enough to marry and have children with

I always think that, assuming she was in his life she can't be that bad

My MIL is a very quiet,gentle lady . I have absolutely nothing in common with her but I respect her . Just think about how mothers of sons commenting will feel in 20 years time ...think about it !!

They are people, not just mothers in law. Some people are lovey, some awful, some just a bit neither here nor there. There mothers in law in all those categories. Just as there are mothers, fathers, wives, husbands, friends, siblings, kids.The mother/daughter in law dynamic can be fraught for obvious reasons. One becomes the other over time usually.

Causing the inner nut to blow off the tree. I’ve just learned to roll my eyes and remember she doesn’t live here.

This may be you one day.

@MintyMabel Centuries of evolution have stopped us from being affected by such primal bullshit, same way we don't all shit in the street and eat fleas off each other

I was agreeing with all your posts., what a shame; we shit in toilets and as far as I am aware the above mentioned species don't shit in streets either, we may not eat fleas but we still have to nitpick them. off just as any other creature does, please expand on how evolution has stopped things (in centuries only) for humans because you know yourself evolution means 'stopping'

Just think about how mothers of sons commenting will feel in 20 years time

Indeed. I can't wait to see how all the "no one is allowed to look at my baby or come to the house" types on here cope with becoming grandparents and being expected to defer to a no-doubt even more entitled younger generation.

My DM can be very difficult and my SIL would have justifiable complaints about her. But equally my SIL can be very difficult too. But only my SIL is of a generation likely to post on MN so you get a skewed view. That may change as MNetters age.

My mil was the best ever, she treated me like a daughter (husband and I have been together since the age of 16) and I came from a home that wasnt a nice one.
Unfortunately my mil died a few months before her first grandchild was born.
It does make me sad as my own parents have never bothered with their grandchildren and dont even know their names.
My fil grates on me though, but I tell him now rather then let it fester.
I'm sure I annoy him to and like people say he had no choice and I've always felt like he wanted better for his son.

My MIL is also crazy. I think it’s like this... I’m the most important woman in my husband’s life - his confident, best friend and supporter. Whereas my mum is the most important woman in my life. I think MILs (to us women), who are mothers of sons, feel pushed out of that important role and it unsettles them emotionally.

These MIL aren't fuddy duddy cirmplene-clad old women who've done nothing but potter about the shed since their now-adult children were babies. They will be everything from CEO's to doctors, will run large companies, some will volunteer for charities, run support groups, some will have marched for women's rights in their time and paved the way for the next generation to have it better than they did

Nah, my MIL did none of that. She gave up work as soon as she possibly could as she viewed being a SAHM as a status symbol. FIL found being the sole wage earner difficult but she made it clear she had no intention of going back.

She then lived her life through the excitement of her boys being at private school which was the pinnacle of her life - she always wants to talk to DH about this when he is just, um, it was 30 yrs ago, I've moved on.

She's never volunteered for as much as baking a cake and her life is now entirely centred around reading the Daily Telegraph.

I've tried, I've really tried, I came to an accommodation but her recent behaviour just suggests she hates me. I've given up.

I loved mine. She was Australian and my gift tags from her read, ‘To My English Rose Girl’

It is also important to remember that while many MILs are indeed bonkers, so are many DILs. And so are many people. If you read Mumsnet, for example, all neighbours are bonkers.

Mine's a saint. She is easy company, warm and kind and never oversteps the mark. That's not particularly interesting to post about on Mumsnet though

FIL on the other hand ...

Any poor fool in a relationship with me (sorry DP) gets a bloody nightmare of a MIL. She's a complete pain in the arse.

DP's mum is quite hard work really. He finds her difficult too and gets really grumpy if he spends too much time with her (she is someone who could find potential misery in even the happiest event). But she's nothing on my mum in the 'nightmare MIL' stakes.

My ex-MIL was totally lovely. Not having her as a MIL any more was one of the very few downsides in ending that relationship.

I think some women are incredibly complicated. I hope my ds doesn't end up marrying one. When those complicated women become MILs, they cause aggro accordingly.

And yes we are more tolerant of our own mothers. My mum can interfere quite a lot and DH is very tolerant of that. I am not sure I would be so tolerant if it were the other way round. That said, my mum is very easy to get along with and young in her attitude despite her interfering, whereas MIL is from another generation and has the attitudes to match. But she has taken the view that once her sons married, it was down to their wives to worry about them!

My MIL is fabulous and we have an excellent relationship, mainly because she respects that DH and I are the parents and we have no expectations on her (or FIL) for childcare. Both families get on well and they all come over to ours for Christmas (DM, PIL, SIL's, DS, BIL, two Uncles) and we all have a great time!

It starts off when their sons are born and by the time they’re MILs it can’t be hidden anymore

Hmm maybe. I think there’s a lot of DILs who can’t cope with the thought of sharing their H with anyone, especially his own mother. I don’t think one is worse than the other, generally.

It seems from reading MN that so many DILs expect their MIL to become way down the list of their sons priority. That they shouldn’t matter anymore, that they are the first and foremost. They are still mother and son. Their bond is still there. Somewhere.

Agree with pp saying its because we didn't grow up with our MILs so we are less tolerant of their eccentricities. My MIL is fundamentally a kind and generous person but there are lots of annoying things she does, like asking me a question and then wandering off or talking over me while I'm trying to answer! She also talks about me and DP to her whole village, even fairly private stuff

If I'm honest I think she finds me slightly hard work too, I'm always chatty, polite and helpful when I see her but fundamentally we have opposing views on a lot of things.

I think it's a small minority of MILs who are crazy, it is just that there are a lot of posters on MN so even a small minority would be loads if every single one of the DILs posted on here.

But also I agree it must be difficult to "lose" your son essentially to another woman and culturally women tend to stay closer to their mothers even after marriage whereas men don't. And it must be difficult to see your grandchildren having a much closer relationship with their other grandparents, if (as is again culturally common) the children's mother prioritises her own parents when interacting with the children.

People tend to revert back to family dynamics when they interact with their parents which can make them act in totally different ways to how they do in everyday life - so a normally confident, outspoken DH may turn into a little obedient mouse when dealing with his mother or someone who is usually perfectly independent and proactive might revert into a whiny, entitled teenager.

Also if you think about your own little family weirdnesses and quirks they are usually things that would be hard to cope with if you weren't used to them by dint of growing up with them. So mashing families together in the way that in-law relationships demand is always tricky. A lot of men don't get on with their MILs or FILs either. But they are not usually posting here.

And then there are often clashes of expectation as well. You grow up in a bubble of your own family expectations and assumptions, and it can be really jarring to encounter someone else having a totally different set of them. So for example I think some of the "OMG my MIL is batshit, listen to what she wants to do" stuff is a case of simply differing expectations. For example if the MIL thinks it would help the new parents for her to take the baby for a sleepover, but in the DIL's family children don't leave their mother's side until much older. Or the DIL has the expectation that both her mum and the MIL will do loads of childcare but the MIL has no intention of this, she may be affronted and take this as a rejection of her children. Neither approach is wrong and if you both have the same/similar expectation then everything works fine, but if they are different then you find people don't automatically go "Ah right, different family expectations", they tend to go "But everyone's family is like my family. Therefore MIL is the outlier and is wrong."

Babies are quite emotional and stir up a lot of feelings as well.

They were of the first generation to mess about with drugs as teenagers/twentysomethings. I think it probably affected them more as women because of their size and physiology compared to the men they were doing drugs with. That's my theory as someone with both a M and an ex-mil who are batshit narcissists and had a lot of 'fun' back in the day.