To worry that I'm ruining my 8yr old's friendships (Social Media related)

[concernedforthefuture]

DD is 8 and attends a small ish school (only 8 girls in her year group). Over the past year, most of the girls in her year seem to have suddenly grown up and are very much into fashion, make-up, social media (mainly Instagram & TikTok but a couple have Facebook too), YouTube, gaming (Fortnite and Roblox) and watching TV and films that are generally meant for an older audience (such as Friends etc).
I'm afraid that I'm not on board with the social media and don't allow DD to use it. However, it's becoming very apparent that she is very much being left out of social groups because the other girls all chat / share videos outside of school and DD is not part of this. I have also stopped her from going to sleepovers after the last one she was invited to was a to watch Dirty Dancing (a 15!). The parents (host and other attendees') seemed surprised that I didn't want DD to watch it .
DD remains quite young for her age compared to her classmates and it's sad to see - she has very little in common with the other girls anymore and often tells me she's lonely.
Should I go against my beliefs and give in and let her have access to social media / unsuitable films etc so that she can maintain a friendship with the girls that used to love all playing together. Or should I stick to my guns even if it means that DD is left out?

And not just children's tv come to think of it.
Soaps, prime time tv when children are awake and sitting there next to you. Admittedly I don't watch them, and to read about the storylines you don't to see that some of these storylines are a whole lot worse than Dirty Dancing for example.

I would seriously be arranging a meeting with the headteacher to discuss this, I think it's very alarming.

My 9-yr old has Roblox and Tiktok. I have the apps on my phone too and am logged in as DC. TikTok is in private restricted mode. If I see a video I don't like, I delete it. Friends mums do the same. Our DC know we monitor them. Equally, DC and I share Google photos, same again monitoring.

Ffswhatsnext I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying.

I was quite a mature child and of course only you as a parent can really guess how your child would react to something, but personally I don't think it affected me negatively seeing the odd reference to/soft (non graphic or full frontal) depiction of consensual sex between adults as a child. I think it was more common to watch adult rated classic films previously, before children's Netflix etc - by 8 I had watched things like Dirty Dancing and Titanic on tv, and the sex scenes had not caused me any issues. It got me used to the concept but I understood it as something that happened between adults. Films that feature teen sex would be more troublesome for me.

The things that affected me far worse for having seen them "too young" were violence and horror. I remember watching things like that at Halloween sleepovers and it staying with me for years and really disturbing me. I do think it's quite backwards that people are often more bothered by kids seeing characters swear or reference sex than deeply disturbing violence.

@IScreamForIceCreams But even in private mode the kids can still see anyone's videos - with unrestricted content (unless I've misunderstood).

3rd time I'll say this on the thread but..

You might as well let the kids watch PornHub as TikTok. Private mode stops others seeing your child, but not your child seeing others.

You can't delete the videos as @IScreamForIceCreams suggests because it's open access if the other person has a public account.. The live streaming is the worst though as you can't see what your child has seen.

Porn and self harming is prevalent on this platform. It is anything but harmless.

I have a 9 nearly 10 year old who doesn’t have social media and no Fortnite. I’d avoid those.

No-one wants their child to be the odd one out, so it's a tough one. I think it's awful that such young children have access to all these things you say her classmates do though, so there's no way I would relent. Instead could you help your DD to strengthen her friendships with the kids she knows outside of school by inviting them for tea, on sleepovers, her parties etc so at least she knows your way of parenting is normal and she doesn't feel so isolated.

Firstly, in no way are YBU not allowing an 8 year old on social media.
Age - recommendations exist for a reason, and it is insanity allowing kids that age to use live-streaming apps, Instagram and the like. They really have no concept what is safe or what to reveal, and kids are mean on social media.
Keep her away from it till she meets the recommended ages - which, to be honest; are a pretty low bar for some apps. I did this to my sons and they both survived and now treat social media very carefully.

Secondly, TikTok , which used to be Musical.ly is a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
It has been fined in the USA with the largest EVER civil suit for illegally mining and storing the data of children without the consent of their parents. The developers captured names , emails, phone numbers, images, and the personal photos posted by said children. And kept them in perpetuity- till they lost their law suit under COPA - ( US children's privacy act)
It uses facial recognition software, and the data is stored offshore in China where the laws re privacy are in no way comparable, nor is the right to on sell third-party data.
They were also aware that there were numerous children using the app well under the 13+ recommendation due to complaints from parents re grooming, and request for explicit acts from kids from older users but did not view this as an issue or take any action till forced to.

India has also had a run in with TiKTok re content ,and I think there is another lawsuit against them starting in the UK for similar reasons.

Anyone, can watch without an account and if you spent at least fifteen minutes flipping though the clips, I guarantee you will find explicit language, explicit gestures, references to drinking and drug taking. You cannot police this. It is not appropriate for anyone under about 14/15/16.

But the cracker for me with this app, is this.
When the US insisted the age gate be enforced, TikTok shut down - without warning all of the accounts of individuals under 13 on the app. A large bunch of ADULTS took to Twitter to complain about being locked out of their TikTok account...because they had been pretending to be a pre-teen and couldn't any longer.

Rather than boot these users into the stratosphere for being creepers of the highest order, TikTok offered to sign them up again if they'd made a mistake with their birthdate (!!!), once they sent this data mining behemoth, certified copies of personal ID.
Individuals were trying to do this , because then the dialogue on Twitter changed to also being locked out of the TikTok website , and therefore making them unable to hand over their personal ID's.

It was a scary mess, and this all took place this year.

So regardless of whether this app has/ is developing an under 13 section, simply for its record with data mining and its pitiful response to all those folk who outed themselves on Twitter who had been pretending to be kids to befriend kids....I wouldn't let a child use it. It's up there as one of the most unsafe apps around for multiple reasons.

Sorry for the rant, I hate this app. A lot.

I would move schools go private anything to avoid this toxic culture. My dd is a sophisticated 10 and doesn’t have a smart phone. I wouldn’t let my 13 year old see dirty dancing

There is a restricted mode on TikTok which filters watchable content and is set by PIN number I believe. My child doesn’t have it but I was talking to another parent who has allowed their (older) child to have it.

Is this not true?

thecybersafetylady.com.au/2019/02/is-tiktok-safe-for-kids/

Have a read of this re the effectiveness of its security settings.

I guess I'm in the minority here but if my child wanted to do this stuff and it helped her fit in socially then I would be ok with it. Obviously i think monitoring that stuff closely would be necessary, but I don't think it's right to hold your children back, behind their peers, because you aren't comfortable with things. My kids used that stuff, and i let them watch things that they wanted to. I've been 100% open and honest with them for as long as they can remember. I also was there with them to answer questions, etc. That they may have had. I can't think of anything I've ever censored for them.

When I was 8 I saw a sex scene on a film at my friends house, her mum used to let her watch anything she wanted. Anyway, God knows what happened but I started getting very anxious, I asked my parents about sex and when I realised that what I'd seen was exactly "what all the mummies and daddies who love each other do" (it wasn't, I saw a pretty graphic violent sex scene but how would I know at that age that all sex wasn't like that) I started having really bad intrusive thoughts, I didn't trust any of my friends parents and got scared of sleepovers in case I heard them have sex. It sounds insane now! The same friend would get me to go on sex chat rooms on line with her, it was all a joke but the stuff we were exposed to was bad. I also started dressing inappropriately when I was round her house, my parents would have gone mad but I wanted to copy her, at times men would pay attention to us, bloody horrible.
I ended up seeing a child psychiatrist and I it took me a year or 2 to get better and trust adults. Basically the doctors said that not all young children can handle it when they're exposed to stuff that's too mature and it can make them anxious and depressed.

Thats a bit of a random story, but I just thought it might be helpful to hear off someone who "grew up too quickly" and it didn't go well.

8 is far too young for phones and social media. When will they ever be free of this crap? Who cares if they get left out b3cause they aren't constantly interacting on social media? They should be running around being active and reading books at 8. Really. It is such a sad waste. And don't say they can do both because I don't believe they do, phones are incredibly addictive.

And don't say they can do both because I don't believe they do, phones are incredibly addictive

And yet my DD has done both because we managed it. In fact she now as a teen spends less time on her phone than her peers, she self-manages her time because it isn’t a novelty.

The issue for me isn’t early access to tech but inappropriate access or misuse of that tech

At 8? What social media is appropriate at 8? I think dd watched some youtube videos at that age. But Instagram and Facebook? That's so unbelievably depressing and i say that as a mum with three dds , the oldest one doesn't have any social media at all and is the most positive, sociable person I know!

What social media is appropriate at 8?

Absolutely none

That’s why I referenced tech, you mentioned phones’and social media. If you read my other posts on here you’ll quite clearly DD had no social media until 13 despite her friends having it and hasn’t suffered at all.

Excuse the erroneous apostrophe!

YANBU-Eight is far too young for social media and 'phones, at least in the way in which you describe. Some of the things which TikTok will expose the children too are horrific and really unsuitable e.g graphic images of self-harm. It might even be worth mentioning it to school as a safeguarding risk.

Whilst it is true that children cannot be protected from everything, it doesn't follow that parents shouldn't try to shield them from material which isn't age appropriate.

I don't think 8 year olds need phones either tbh, but a simple ipod type thing with music on and a simple text messenger to text parents is fine.

I don't think 8 year olds need phones either tbh, but a simple ipod type thing with music on and a simple text messenger to text parents is fine

DD asked for one when her father and I separated. She wanted to feel like she had access to the other parent. It was easy to give her an old handset with exceedingly tight controls. I’m glad we handled it that way - I feel sure it has contributed to the closeness she has to both of us despite having two homes, and now to her step-mother too.

It wasn’t a difficult decision for us, both of us work in tech so we made the decision to bring her up with it as an every day rather than a novelty or treat.

My lot are 11-15. We kept to the age limits for pretty much everything.

Tic tic is well known for being extremely dodgy for grooming etc.

FB is a minefield.

We are really aware of social media dangers and my kids still manage to make most of the errors going. And we have talked, discussed, punished etc all of them. We even removed all tech for 3 months from all 4 at one point. (Which was effective and they were far nicer kids for it).

The problem is they can never switch off from school. Undesirable frankly. You will end up regretting this sooner rather than later if you go with the easy option.

I don't think what you are describing jaques is what the OP is struggling with.