...to buy radar key online to use disabled loo?

[Marigo]

I’m not disabled and neither are any of my children, however I’m often out with my 3 under 2.5 and in our local shopping centre loos there’s no toilet in the baby change. The ladies is impossible with double buggy plus buddy board and the disabled requires a radar key. Same for the loos in the two big department stores so I just can’t go out into town unless it’s the weekend and my husband can come in case I need a wee! I’m struggling to leave the house for this stress but my mom is disabled and I know how shit it is when she can’t use the large cubicle she needs. I’m really conflicted about what to do.

Those of you saying "What if a disabled person is desperate?" or "I have IBS / crohns and cannot wait", what do you suggest if there is a genuinely disabled person already using the toilet? Sometimes you just have to wait. How is waiting for another disabled person to finish, any different from waiting for a non-disabled person with double buggy?

I'm not disabled but my son is, and he uses a mobility device. I cannot leave him outside the toilets whilst I "nip in", and so I find myself using the accessible toilet both for myself as carer, and when needing to change him. If it's me, I take 3 mins. If he needs a change, it's more like 10 mins. Don't get me started on a rant about having to lay a ten-year-old child on the floor due to lack of an appropriate changing bench - we have to plan days out around not just accessible toilets but specific Changing Places toilets.

Surely the problem here is lack of enough loo provision for women,and then lack of adequate provision for parents with children?
OP shouldn't be using the disabled loo,but she should be able to go shopping with her children and get to go to the loo jf she needs to,and without having to go in an open cubicle - even the " use the end cubicle,no-one will see" approach depends on the layout of the loos facilitating this.

Taking it away from the quick wee question,it isn't at all reasonable to say if someone needs a shit they should have to do that in an open cubicle - because they have babies.Rampant period issues? Nope.Stomach upset? Nope.
Maybe using the disabled loo isn't the solution but not leaving the house till all your children are independently mobile doesn't seem like the solution either.

“Those of you saying "What if a disabled person is desperate?" or "I have IBS / crohns and cannot wait", what do you suggest if there is a genuinely disabled person already using the toilet? Sometimes you just have to wait. How is waiting for another disabled person to finish, any different from waiting for a non-disabled person with double buggy?”

I do agree with this. I don’t understand the idea that people with disabilities should never wait for the loo. Surely it’s obvious that the potential will always be there for them to need to wait for a public loo?

honestly if I was waiting to change my dd as she quite often has exploded through her nappy I'd tear you a new arsehole pet

And what evidence of mine and my children’s health conditions do I need to carry to prevent being verbally or physically assaulted by you or someone like you?

My concentrated oramorph?
My twins blue badges?
Certificate of visual impairment?

How can you tell the difference between me and my twins in my double buggy, and someone who doesn’t have a disability? What the fuck would give you the right to scream at me for using the facilities we are supposed to use?

I once had an earful from someone after using the disabled toilets with my twins when they were babies because a) there was no baby change except in the disabled loos, and b) my son was displaying signs of a hypo and I needed to check his blood sugar levels and administer treatment. That was a lovely bonus to a very stressful day.

The problem here is the shopping centre providing insufficient facilities to enable their customers to use the bathroom while shopping with their children. OP shouldn’t have to be worried about being incontinent because she can’t access a toilet.

How is waiting for another disabled person to finish, any different from waiting for a non-disabled person with double buggy?

One is unavoidable, the other isn't. And provision is calculated on the expected number of disabled people needing to use it. It doesn't take into account all the entitled parents.

@ImNotYourGranny I highly doubt every single person you've met looks guilty coming out of the disabled toilet. How do you know they're not a person with a disability who may have been in there a while and feel worried they've kept people waiting!?

Amazing psychic skills you have.

Plenty of us on this thread have said we've used the accessible toilets when necessary and not felt guilty about it so I think you're over reading people.

As I've said I'd feel guilty about leaving my child in a soiled nappy, I'd feel guilty about leaving my babies outside unsupervised.

Using a accessible toilet when I'm unable to access the ladies toilets? No I don't feel guilty about that. I appreciate it's not ideal for anyone especially those with a disability that may mean they need to use the toilet urgently to have to wait a minute or 2 but that's down to the design of the toilets.

Goodness, the security at the shopping centre I mentioned used to go and unlock the accessible toilet when he saw me coming with a double buggy, maybe he should have been sacked.

Maybe using the disabled loo isn't the solution but not leaving the house till all your children are independently mobile doesn't seem like the solution either.

Absolutely. I find it surprising the attitude of just don't go out then, or hold it in. The latter especially, almost impossible with a prolapse which is 'one of those things', or you've torn your entire undercarriage; but stay indoors until your children can walk . Lovely to see women supporting women isn't it.

Toilets are now accessible and not disabled.

No, that's not the case. They are accessible for people with disabilities. Some of fought for the name change as we felt it stigmatising. Why don''t you fight for more parent and child loos. It's because disabilities tend to be permanent, and you only need to supervise your child for a few years. So by the time you have achieved something your children are in their teens. That's why, you've forgotten all about it but along come the next generation making it more difficult for us with their 'accessibility means all of us'. It really doesn't.

@ImNotYourGranny I highly doubt every single person you've met looks guilty coming out of the disabled toilet. How do you know they're not a person with a disability who may have been in there a while and feel worried they've kept people waiting!?

Amazing psychic skills you have.

Just observant.

But you crack on taking what isn't yours and kidding yourself that we don't know what you're doing.

The last person who I saw looking guilty coming out the loo as I waited for the baby change was a fairly able looking older man. When I got in the loo there was shit absolutely everywhere and I mean everywhere. I’ve only seen similar once before, caring for a grandparent with bowel cancer and strongly suspect that was his issue. However that wouldn’t necessarily meet the definition of a disability and depending on whether or not he has had any testing or treatment he may well not have a radar key. As gross as it was, I wouldn’t begrudge him the disabled loo though.

No, that's not the case. They are accessible for people with disabilities. Some of fought for the name change as we felt it stigmatising. Why don''t you fight for more parent and child loos. It's because disabilities tend to be permanent, and you only need to supervise your child for a few years. So by the time you have achieved something your children are in their teens. That's why, you've forgotten all about it but along come the next generation making it more difficult for us with their 'accessibility means all of us'. It really doesn't.

Quite. If all the parents who want to use our facilities put half the effort into campaigning for their own as they do arguing about it on Mumsnet there'd be toilets big enough to take their entire families all over the place.

@ImNotYourGranny who is this "we" you speak for?

I've never hidden what I'm doing which would have been hard walking out of the toilet with 2 babies and a buggy anyway .

Anyway, I'm out now. It's exhausting having to defend disabled provision in this day age. As if we don't have enough to deal with on a daily basis.

But by saying you’d give a tear a mother with a giant buggy a new arsehole, you’re potentially forcing disabled people / parents of disabled children to defend themselves to you.

I may look guilty when I come out, because changing twins with disabilities isn’t quick, even if I’m rushing. Again, what evidence should I have to hand?

@ImNotYourGranny I am disabled with rheumatoid arthritis at 29, and I have 3 toddlers under 4, one is autistic. You wouldn't know from looking at us that my hands are a load of useless shit and my son can't handle people who use hand dryers and takes me 15 minutes to change, we all look pretty non-disabled. I wouldn't appreciate a nosy weirdo stating at me coming out trying to work out if I looked guilty or if I was disabled. And if I caught someone staring id make them wish they never did.

"Passthecherrycoke

The last person who I saw looking guilty coming out the loo as I waited for the baby change was a fairly able looking older man. When I got in the loo there was shit absolutely everywhere and I mean everywhere. I’ve only seen similar once before, caring for a grandparent with bowel cancer and strongly suspect that was his issue. However that wouldn’t necessarily meet the definition of a disability and depending on whether or not he has had any testing or treatment he may well not have a radar key. As gross as it was, I wouldn’t begrudge him the disabled loo though."

What on earth are you talking about. Firstly you think you can diagnose cancer, then you dont think that's a disability? And why do you think he doesnt have a radar key?

However that wouldn’t necessarily meet the definition of a disability

Would it not? What is the definition of disability?

And you can tell the difference between bowel cancer, Crohn's, UC, IBS, celiac disease can you? Maybe offer your services to the NHS because you'd save a fortune in diagnostics if you can tell just by looking in the toilet.

Tabby it actually has a particular smell and texture when people have bowel cancer. I imagine you realise it’s not common for healthy adults to shit themselves up walls.

Having cancer does not necessarily meet the equality acts definition of a disability, no.

Sometimes people need whichever loo is available

. I don’t understand the idea that people with disabilities should never wait for the loo. Surely it’s obvious that the potential will always be there for them to need to wait for a public loo?

Because there are far more parents with children than there are disabled people.

The number of disabled toilets required is worked out based on need. So, say they think 1 toilet per 10 disabled people then that means hardly ever a queue. Then all the parents decide to use the toilet too. So, now we've got 100 people using 1 toilet rather than 10. You can see that the queue will now be much longer, right?

I have one because two of my DC are disabled, although neither of them are continent and they’re still small enough to use baby change facilities I often use the accessible toilet for myself because my double buggy won’t usually fit into a regular cubicle and I can’t safely leave them outside where I can’t see them. The only toilet I can reasonably use is the accessible one in a lot of my local shopping centres.

I don’t use the key unnecessarily, if I don’t have the DC or there is an alternative toilet I can access with the buggy I don’t use the accessible toilet. It is a last resort, but I do have some incontinence and I admit there have been times when all the non-accessible toilets are locked (they’re shut past 6pm in my local area) and I’ve been able to use my key to get into the accessible toilet. I feel like incontinence is a good enough reason to use the accessible toilet - no person should have to wet themselves because no toilet was available, disabled or otherwise.

it actually has a particular smell and texture when people have bowel cancer.

Does it? No different to IBD when it's mixed with blood. I am pretty certain that someone with bowel cancel will have a disability under the EA, if you look it up.

Having cancer does not necessarily meet the equality acts definition of a disability, no.

Actually cancer is automatically classed as a disability by the equality act from the day of diagnosis. Obviously that's separate to the point about needing to use a disabled toilet though.

I don’t suppose OP’s coming back since her last message was at 15:37 (I think).

@Marigo I don’t think I’m entitled and I haven’t done it so far. It’s more of a WWYD I suppose.

You don’t think you’re entitled? Shame nearly everyone else does. Why do people post in AIBU and then deny vehemently that they are despite everyone disagreeing? Then try and back out and say it’s more of a WWYD. The answers are the fucking same! You can extrapolate, surely? DON’T DO IT.

In most places there can be 5 or 6 cubicles in the ladies. Similar in the gents between urinals and cubicles.

Then there is one toilet that those with disabilities can use. By the nature of the disabilities many can also need that space for longer.

That can make it hard enough for others. Add in those who use it just because it’s there then it makes it even harder for people with disabilities to plan to leave the house

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