...to buy radar key online to use disabled loo?

[Marigo]

I’m not disabled and neither are any of my children, however I’m often out with my 3 under 2.5 and in our local shopping centre loos there’s no toilet in the baby change. The ladies is impossible with double buggy plus buddy board and the disabled requires a radar key. Same for the loos in the two big department stores so I just can’t go out into town unless it’s the weekend and my husband can come in case I need a wee! I’m struggling to leave the house for this stress but my mom is disabled and I know how shit it is when she can’t use the large cubicle she needs. I’m really conflicted about what to do.

What I don't understand is why the needs of a disabled person needing a wee trump the needs of anyone else needing a wee? If you need to go, you need to go. Disabled people still have to wait if another disabled person is using the toilet, don't they, they don't have a right to use it as soon as they need it.

I wouldn't use a disabled toilet if I didn't have to. But if I was desperate and it was the only cubicle I could get access to (pregnant, carrying a small child, leg in a cast, whatever) then I'd use it. Yes those are all choices (broken leg due to skiing accident) but it still puts me in the same position as a disabled person at that moment in time - needing a wee and unable to use the facilities.

Or are we going to tell disabled people who are only temporarily disabled that they can't use it too? Or people whose disability was self inflicted due to an accident or a "lifestyle choice" (smoking leading to cancer etc)?

Chemical elephant disabled needs don't trump the needs of others, but when disabled people only have one suitable Toilet to use while others have multiple choices it's selfish and bloody minded to use the disabled one.

I did this, bought a Radar key off ebay for a couple of quid. The only toilets I've used have the disabled and baby changing combined anyway so it just saves me finding a member of staff and asking to use the toilet — like a schoolchild.

What I don't understand is why the needs of a disabled person needing a wee trump the needs of anyone else needing a wee?

Oh fucking hell, really

No one was waiting when I went in or after I came out. Does that make me a bad person?

Yes it does. When you do it, it gives everyone else in the rest of the queue permission in their minds to do it too. I've seen it happen. The Accessible WC left unused for a long time, til one comes out of the queue to use it. Then inevitably another does, and another and so it goes on. "I was only 3 minutes" means nothing, because So was the person after you and the one after them.

The same phenomenon happens with blue badge spaces. They can sit empty or with BB holders only for a long time, but as soon as a non badge holder parks there, they fill up quickly.

It's a human nature thing. Few people want to the the first to do this socially unacceptable thing, but they don't mind being the second.

So, yes, by tying up that toilet for three minutes, despite there being nobody who needed to use it at that time, it still makes you a bad person.

The accessible toilet should be a last resort used by people who cannot reasonably access any other toilet facilities. Mostly this will mean it will only be used by those who are disabled or have other conditions which mean they either can’t use a standard cubicle or can’t queue. Occasionally it might mean they need to be used by someone who is not disabled but where other circumstances mean that it’s not possible for them to queue or use a standard cubicle and I think that is okay, so long as the facilities are not abused and people aren’t just using them because it’s a bit quicker or a bit less hassle than using the standard cubicles.

Nobody should be left in a situation where they either have to wet themselves or not leave the house because there is no suitable toilet to meet their needs, disabled or otherwise. But if somebody is regularly finding the only toilet that can meet their needs is the accessible one and they don’t actually have a disability or condition to justify this then I would argue they should be trying to find solutions which make the standard toilets usable, not simply buying a radar key. At the very least I would be exploring the different facilities available in my local shopping centre and finding the ones where I could access the standard cubicles or baby change facilities and try to make use of them where possible when out and about. Also if you really can’t access any toilets other than the accessible ones with a buggy you need to write to your local council and/ or toilet providers and let them know this in the hope they will work to put in place a solution next time they update the toilets.

still puts me in the same position as a disabled person at that moment in time

Carrying a baby does not put you in the same position as a disabled person. Not remotely.

What strikes me from this thread is yet again the legitimate needs of people with disabilities and the legitimate needs of parents (often mothers) are being placed in competition due to inadequate provision. OP you should not be using a Radar key but you should have toilet facilities you can access.

I would raise the issue with the local council and the shopping centre.

What I don't understand is why the needs of a disabled person needing a wee trump the needs of anyone else needing a wee?

Because the “feeling” of needing a wee causes me quite a lot of sensory distress so I need to get away from the feeling as soon as possible. I assume most non-disabled people won’t start crying or pulling at their hair if they need a wee and can’t go? I can promise you that as a grown adult, it’s extremely embarrassing to get to that state in public so I’d really rather avoid it at all costs.

Accessible toilet- yes you can use. It is accessible, not reserved for disabled people

Stop peddling this myth.

I assume most non-disabled people won’t start crying or pulling at their hair if they need a wee and can’t go?

No but I might wet myself if I can't use the non disabled toilets, and that would be pretty uncomfortable and embarrassing.

Why is it OK for me to wet myself when there's a toilet right there that I could use? Just because my accessibility needs aren't a disability?

Chemical elephant. Your attitude 😠words fail me. Diabled/accessible toilets where created to give disabled people the same access to toilets as everyone else. They where never intended to be accessible to all.

Couple of years ago I was at Legoland with my sons and a big group of friends, just before we left I needed the toilet and the ladies queue was horrendous and a member of staff waved me to the disabled toilets- buggy and all. Friends continued to queue for the ladies. I went in, had my ds use it quickly, used it myself then came out to a wheelchair users carer who screamed and hollered at me for using it because I had the kids with me.

In front of 50+ people (queuing and milling around) I found myself explaining that i have arthritis in my back, prolapsed discs and struggle with mobility- we’d actually considered hiring a wheelchair for that day.
I am a blue badge holder. My ds also suffers with joint issues that mean he’d spent more time in the buggy than my youngest (small baby) had that day.

I genuinely don’t see how you can tell the difference, because parents like myself and sinkgirl have no choice but to take our dc with us whether it’s for them or us.

I also suffer with bowel problems, but like hell was I explaining that. It’s humiliating attempting to justify yourself. People think that only a mobility aid means you need the disabled facilities, but that’s simply not true.

Op honestly leave them for those who need them. It’s hard enough struggling through the day in pain with disabilities, having to wait because someone with kids is using them is a bit of a kick in the teeth. I think it should be guided by your conscience.

chemical elephant do you have a disability, because if you don't one would assume that you have more than a few seconds warning that you need to have a pee, or evacuate your bowels? In which case you have both the time and the control to find a suitable lavatory in which to do so. Me, I get very little warning, so I shit myself. It has happened because another disabled person has been using the loo, but that's pretty unusual. However, statistically the more people like you that think you're entitled to use facilities designed to level the playing field the more likely people like me are unable to access shopping centres, cinemas, theatres.

*No but I might wet myself if I can't use the non disabled toilets, and that would be pretty uncomfortable and embarrassing.

Why is it OK for me to wet myself when there's a toilet right there that I could use? Just because my accessibility needs aren't a disability?*

Because I’m assuming you don’t have a disability that makes you physically unable to use the ladies? Also from your post I gather that you don’t have bladder/sensory problems and can tell when you’re going to need a wee and then hold it in for a reasonable amount of time until you can access a loo

Another day another DM (Definitely Mumtitled) moaning about facilities for people with disabilities - seats on buses, trains. P&C parking etc.

Please don't compare having a baby with having a disability.
It's utterly vile, entitled and nasty behaviour and you should be ashamed of yourself for even considering it.

It's people like you that make our lives so terribly difficult.

Let me spell out the difference for you:

When I’m out and I need a wee, I need to go immediately or the “feeling” makes me feel really distressed (it’s a sensory issue) so I will immediately take myself off to the nearest loo - 9/10 this will be the ladies as there is no/a short queue. Imagine being in intense pain, you can probably tolerate it for 5 mins or so but any longer will make you progressively more distressed - that is what it is like, and so if there’s a huge queue I will use the disabled loo so I’m don’t end up having a meltdown.

As far as I’m aware non-disabled people don’t have this issue?

Boo
You don’t need to justify or explain. You have a disability that makes waiting for the loo distressing and problematic.

"I dont get all the comments about people these days lobbying to get disabled toilets....its been a pretty standard regulation that buildings and organisations have to provide disabled facilities for about 30 or 40 years now hasnt it?"

My town still doesn't have a changing places toilet.
A nearby town doesn't have unisex public disabled toilets so if you have the other sex carer one of you is forced into the wrong sex toilet.
Two local pools don't have any unisex changing facilities.

What do you mean by unisex public disabled toilet? All disabled toilets are for both sexes?

www.changing-places.org/

For those unaware of the changing places campaign.

We are lucky that Ds can generally access the normal disabled toilets, although as said before even for adult child and a child’s wheelchair it’s tight and sometimes a wriggle to hold door open with my arse and get him in.

However if he needs anything doing to his feeding tube, or if he has an accident while out we need much more space than the majority of normal disabled toilets give.

The disabled facility is a larger cubicle within the male or female toilet or changing room or both. It's no good if the carer and person with disabilities are different sexes.

Christ on a cracker.

Bloody hell who on earth write this:
still puts me in the same position as a disabled person at that moment in time

That really is a vile, nasty, disgusting thing to say.
Having unprotected sex and having a baby is nothing like having a disability.

As a parent you are responsible for shaping and guiding young minds.
I fear you may be doing a crap job if you behave like this.

SIrzy thankyou for posting tne link. I hope certain posters read it and realise the extreme situations some of us face every single day, then realise how insignificant their posts have been.

position the pushchair in front. Why are you different to anyone else?
I've never seen anyone do that in my life. You shit with the door open?