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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be baffled as to why women accept this?

174 replies

Atticusblame · 20/10/2019 20:29

I went out for drinks with my friend last night. Her partner has just moved into her flat. I asked how it was going and she said he was very messy and didn't do any housework. She's now given him specific jobs which are his.

She said 'he is tidying up tonight too. He's just asked me to write a list of what needs doing and he said he'll get it done.'

I said nothing, but thought to myself why the fuck do so many women accept this, and actually think it's helpful? Why do they think men cannot see what needs doing as well as they do? Can't they see that it is just so the man gets away with not having to think about anything domestic?

It infuriates me is much. AIBU to think that women shouldn't accept that a man needs a list of housework?

OP posts:
ThatMuppetShow · 21/10/2019 11:50

To be fair, I wouldn't swap places with him - I'd hate his job. I just feel a bit... undervalued.

it's understandable, but you know, this summarise so many relationships.
No, one partner really wouldn't want to swap and do extra hours and extra responsibilities. But many of them do not see how lucky that they have the choice, and that's it's a luxury that the other partner never had.

ThatMuppetShow · 21/10/2019 11:52

If I had an OH, I'd tell him to fuck off and shove it up his arse.

ok then.

So it's lucky you decided not to have one, but only have a very artificial view of what a relationship is. It's easy to make grand statements when you conveniently forget that - if you had a partner - they would have to put up with you too.

Smotheroffive · 21/10/2019 11:54

No, one partner really wouldn't want to swap and do extra hours and extra responsibilities. But many of them do not see how lucky that they have the choice, and that's it's a luxury that the other partner never had

Who are you talking about here Muppet ?

Smotheroffive · 21/10/2019 11:55

ny of them do not see how lucky that they have the choice, and that's it's a luxury that the other partner never had

This bit, I mean.

TulipsTulipsTulips · 21/10/2019 11:56

OP

I agree with your sentiment BUT a lot of men really don’t know exactly what to do. My brother would fall into this category. We were raised this way. My mother taught me basic house maintenance things from an early age, making beds, hand washing delicate things, cleaning around taps with an old tooth brush, wiping around light switches, etc. My brother wasn’t shown any of this. In some families girls are ‘taught this from a young age. It wouldn’t bother me giving a man a lost of jobs, provided I only have to put together the list and show him once.

ThatMuppetShow · 21/10/2019 12:09

Smotheroffive

2 partners, one HAS to work full time, longer hours and more responsibilities, and take most of the financial burden on his shoulders.
The other one can chose to work full time, or work part-time, or have a break (or not at all) and take care of the house and the kids

Who do you think has the best card here?

ShinyGiratina · 21/10/2019 12:12

There's a difference in setting out mutually acceptable differences on housekeeping and having to set out an idiot-proof guide doing all the thinking for someone who will do nothing under their own initiative.

DH and I approach housework differently. If we were set up in identical homes for two months and left to it, he'd have done a good job of tidying as he goes, and I'd end up with more clutter and would probably do a blitz for the final inspection, but my place would be cleaner, surfaces wiped, dusting, clean mirrors/ tiles etc. Neither of us is wrong, they are different approaches. If something is too far off balance for the other, we talk to eachother. He could work logically down a list, I have to tackle the job annoying me most, so I might start with a crumbly floor as that gives me an achievement to keep me going, he'll see that as the last job incase further crumbs fall from the the other jobs... I see the sense in that, but there's a high chance of repeatedly not getting down the list and always missing the same jobs.

Something that is overlooked is that tidying is a skill that needs to be learned. Some people will pick it up more intuitively than others. As a child, I'd be directed to my untidy bedroom, told to "tidy up" and left to get on with dealing with a load of stuff, poor storage and a lot of hand-me-down stuff that I didn't want and wasn't allowed to get rid of because it had been Y's umpteen years earlier. The end result was shoving it under the bed and into a cupboard until something far more exciting captured my attention which didn't take long! I didn't actually learn to tidy in any effective way until adulthood. With the DC's they are directed and taught "What can you see most of? Put it in a pile. What can you see most of now? What do you need to do with this pile?" Lots of other skills in life have to be learned and we don't necessarily appreciate the learning process of them until someone has difficulty (driving, riding a bike, swimming, reading)

In another related thread fairly recently, a poster identified that a contemporary problem with pink/ blue jobs is that a lot of blue jobs are now redundant or delegated. Husband doesn't need to spend 3 hours on a Sunday tinkering with the car to endure it works while wife cooks Sunday lunch because cars are more reliable and you need a specialist with a device to read the electronics on the engine anyway. Husband doesn't need to mow the lawn (or as much of it) because patio/decking/ gravel/ artificial grass/ gardener. Meanwhile advances in pink jobs have less efficiency saving. Loading the dishwasher vs handwashing. The end result is sticking to traditional roles means that there is far more imbalance towards traditionally female roles keeping more work.

Smotheroffive · 21/10/2019 12:13

What exactly are you on about?

Are you here to bemoan your lot, as this is how this is sounding now.

Smotheroffive · 21/10/2019 12:15

Muppet ^

Original poster
Atticusblame · 21/10/2019 12:21

Muppet, are you actually trying to say that you think part of a relationship is accepting that your OH is entitled to give you a list of jobs they want you to do when you haven't asked for one?

OP posts:
angelikacpickles · 21/10/2019 12:24

YABU. Why is it the woman’s fault for accepting it? It’s the man’s fault for not doing it. Be annoyed at him, not her.

thenightfury · 21/10/2019 12:42

My DH was brought up in a house where his mother carried the entire mental load. Neither him nor BIL where ever made to lift a finger. When we moved in together he taught himself how to cook, clean, use the washing machine, everything he'd never been taught by his mother and in all honestly he does more housework than I do. There's no excuse.

ThatMuppetShow · 21/10/2019 13:30

are you actually trying to say that you think part of a relationship is accepting that your OH is entitled to give you a list of jobs they want you to do when you haven't asked for one?

huh? What on earth are you on about?

I am saying that I bored of the women complaining about "wife work" when it's all their own doing! How are we supposed to fight for respect and equality when the "martyr lot" is bringing us down!

I am also saying OP that your opinion about live-in relationships is a bit funny from someone who just said she is not in a live-in relationship...

Smotheroffive · 21/10/2019 13:33

Muppet

Stop blaming women for men's issues.

You literally can't force anyone to do anything, and yes, pink and blue jobs still exist.

You cannot force a man to lift a single finger if thats his attitude.

ThatMuppetShow · 21/10/2019 13:35

Stop blaming women for men's issues.

maybe read the thread instead of focusing on my last 2 comments... that might help.

ThatMuppetShow · 21/10/2019 13:37

I should have add that
and yes, pink and blue jobs still exist. of course!

pregnancy, child birth, and breastfeeding are most definitively pink, and ever will be.
That's it.

Smotheroffive · 21/10/2019 13:47

wife work" when it's all their own doing!

I am Hmm I have been Hmm. and responding along the way Hmm

No, I wasn't referencing pregnancy, etc, and neither has anyone else when it comes to pink jobs Hmm

Again, don't blame women and you can't force a man with an attitude of no

A pp commented how their dh had never actually learnt, but he didn't have that attitude. I have DBs that weren't specifically taught, other than tidying rooms, the girls weren't specifically either, but we've all worked out how to do it! How to be part of a team oulling together.

If one won't pull, you can't force them to Confused

ThatMuppetShow · 21/10/2019 13:53

you can't force a man with an attitude of no
why do you have to make it about men?

If a woman doesn't want to cook, you can't force her either.

I don't get why it always come back to men vs women. It sounds like it's more likely women who get themselves into a state if someone might see their house being untidy, whilst men are less bothered.

I hate mess, but that has nothing to do with visitors and what people might think of me.

Original poster
Atticusblame · 21/10/2019 13:56

I am also saying OP that your opinion about live-in relationships is a bit funny from someone who just said she is not in a live-in relationship...

Confused My opinion that women shouldn't bear the mental burden of domestic work is funny because I don't live with a man at the moment?

OP posts:
StCharlotte · 21/10/2019 13:59

Are there still pink and blue jobs?

We have pink and blue jobs in our house. Pink jobs include doing the bins. Blue jobs include hoovering and making pastry.

Original poster
Atticusblame · 21/10/2019 14:00

I don't get why it always come back to men vs women. It sounds like it's more likely women who get themselves into a state if someone might see their house being untidy, whilst men are less bothered.

Or men are 'less bothered' because they've been taught and socialised into thinking that it isn't their job to think about it, and if they do nothing finally the woman will break and then that's that sorted for the future. She won't make that mistake again.

OP posts:
WalkiesPlease · 21/10/2019 14:26

Personally I think you are generalising and BU. When me and my boyfriend first moved in together we drew up a huge list of all possible chores and we divided it between the two of us. Sometimes we swap but either way there's no griping about who's done what and when and why not etc. It just gets done. If people want to use lists, that's fine by me. I always hated living in a home where I had to second guess every single chore that my parents wanted me to do because "they shouldn't have to ask". At least this way there's a clear devision.

GinisLife · 21/10/2019 15:01

No one ever mentions on these types of threads the fact that men's brains work differently to women's and develop at a different rate. I have a FS and I was moaning to a child psychologist about how he's just so messy and untidy and appears not to see it which is infuriating. I got told I'd have to wait until he was at least 25 and his brain was fully formed before I'd get my wish - but not helped I'm sure by previous FCs treating him like a prince and not teaching him from an early age.

Original poster
Atticusblame · 21/10/2019 15:05

Personally I think you are generalising and BU. When me and my boyfriend first moved in together we drew up a huge list of all possible chores and we divided it between the two of us. Sometimes we swap but either way there's no griping about who's done what and when and why not etc. It just gets done. If people want to use lists, that's fine by me. I always hated living in a home where I had to second guess every single chore that my parents wanted me to do because "they shouldn't have to ask". At least this way there's a clear devision.

I think that's totally understandable because you drew the list up together. It would be different if your boyfriend had said to you 'Walkies, just write down what you want me to do', and then contributed nothing more to the thought process.

OP posts:
Original poster
Atticusblame · 21/10/2019 15:07

No one ever mentions on these types of threads the fact that men's brains work differently to women's and develop at a different rate. Is this serious or sarcastic? I can't tell written down.

OP posts: