Brexit postponed

[MarianaMoatedGrange]

AIBU to worry that the (almost certain) delay in Brexit will give rise to civil unrest?

What happens if there is a second referendum and the majority swings firmly to leave I wonder...

mummy2017 since you are struggling to keep up, thanks to the ref vote we are not the 5th biggest economy anymore and we are indeed heading towards 7th place, overtaken by France. Here is an elite expert PWC report to enlighten you.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN1OI00L

It’s not happening I think you're right.

Yes it'll be a decade of negotiations

Rousette
I don't think it will be. I don't believe they want a trade deal. Which is why this is a back door to a no-deal scenario at the end of next year. The backstop has been removed. So if we don't reach a deal by around July we will crash out next December.
Exactly as planned. And de Pfeffel Johnson will have delivered for Trump.

What happens if there is a second referendum and the majority swings firmly to leave I wonder...

@Justasconfusedwithnumber2 I know the answer to this!

Absolutely nothing. We’d still be in this exact same shitty situation with no hope of anything positive, or any kind of outcome that fulfils the promises made, or any benefit to ourselves.

People want a second referendum because the result of the last one was illegal, advisory, based on lies and impossible to deliver in all its competing forms.

I know you’d love to believe it’s because we’re sore losers.

Taken from an article from politics.co.uk...

"Outside of the EUsystem, Britain is going to hurt. A recent report by UK in a Changing Europe projected a reduction in UK GDP per capita after ten years of between 2.3% and seven per cent under Johnson's plan. The gap will be defined by whether we try to make up the loss by bringing in lots of immigrants and find a way to improve productivity. The best case scenario is a £16 billion hit to public finances per year. It's £49 billion hit in the worst case.

This will not be made up for by securing new free trade deals overseas. These agreements are tiny and inconsequential next to the European project. The government's own analysis suggests that even at peak British negotiating success they would amount to an increase in GDP after 15 years of somewhere between 0.1% and 0.2%."

Here is an elite expert PWC report to enlighten you
We don't want to listen to experts though do we?!!!
We've had enough of experts - said stooge Gove in the leave campaign.
No, don't listen to experts, listen to de Pfeffel Johnson, Farage, Gove, Rees Mogg et al. They know what is best for you.

No, I don't think there will be civil unrest. I was talking to my BIL yesterday who is a pretty staunch Brexiter but he does not like the deal and would rather remain than leave on those terms. He hopes there will be a second vote.

I thinkthe awful comments blaming people for voting the way they did do nothing to actually help the Remain cause. I never agreed with the referendum and the manipulative ways that the Leave Campaign tapped into people's genuine love for this country, painting the EU as the enemy who was coming to take it all away. They thought they were doing the right thing. Many still do. Farage is a skilled and effective front man.

Lots of people weren't and aren't that interested in politics. I couldnt have given a flying fuck about EU legislation before 2016. This is why we have elected representatives so that you don't have to read all the papers and blogs and news outlets just to scratch the surface of what is going on.

Let alone the impact on the environment by having our main trading deals thousands of miles away as opposed to with our neighbours in Europe

unknown yes you're probably right. And No Deal means tariffs all the way and most likely horrendous price rises.

CalamityJune
I think people are 'blaming' the leavers because some of them are wilfully refusing to see that this is a shitshow and they got it wrong in the main and were duped.
I salute people like your brother in law for his honesty. I know a friend of a friend who feels the same.
But people like them need to mobilise and write to their MPs to let them know they have changed their minds. We are all entitled to do so now that we can see the slow motion car crash that Brexit is.

@theunknownknown I agree but I think that Remainers shoot themselves in the foot with this sort of vitriol. The patronising "you're too stupid to know what's good for you, we refuse to listen to what you say and we shall scheme to undermine you" attitude just mirrors what the Leave campaigners want them to think about the way the EU bullies the UK.

Rather than aligning against those who decieved and lied to the public, Remainers cast ourselves as the supervillain's cronies bullying the plucky underdog. Remain lost because they didn't strike any sort of emotional tone.

I can't blame people for voting with their gut. I did the same, except I voted Remain so I guess that makes me enlightened and inclusive and informed. But I would be a hypocrite to blame those who came to a different conclusion because they didn't know the issue inside out.

"People want a second referendum because the result of the last one was illegal, advisory, based on lies and impossible to deliver in all its competing forms" 🙄

But you agree the situation would be the same if the majority is then higher (which I strongly suspect it would be)

Well lets have another then and delay the process further as opposed to spending time finding the right exit deal.

@Justasconfusedwithnumber2 what is the right exit deal?

But you agree the situation would be the same if the majority is then higher (which I strongly suspect it would be)

I thought it was fairly obvious that I would hope Remain would have the majority. Leave winning again wouldn’t make the situation any better, was my point.

Why the rolling eyes? What’s the problem with that paragraph?

Calamity

"you're too stupid to know what's good for you, we refuse to listen to what you say and we shall scheme to undermine you"

We are listening. Still waiting for proper good reasons to leave. As for scheming? What, you mean openly trying to find a way to protect the UK? It's not about undermining anybody, it's about doing what is best for the UK. Of course Johnson & co on the other hand, no scheming there, oh no.

"Those who came to a different conclusion because they didn't know the issue inside out." Then why vote at all if they don't understand the issue! That's the problem right there.

CalamityJune
I don't think it is vitriol, I think it is utter frustration and incredulity that a large number of leavers still advocate leaving despite knowing the pitfalls. And if they haven't made themselves aware of the pitfalls they need to do so.
Leaving will destroy this country for a couple of generations. Possibly we will never be able to recover the economic model we have as I strongly believe that the aim is to deliver an American style economy where few prosper and the rest are desperately chasing the dream.
We can't trade with the USA whilst we maintain EU standards. So a no-deal would suit this government.
None of the protestations of the current cabinet around strengthening workers' rights, environmental standards etc convince me. They are liars. They are lying through their teeth. If they weren't they would not have removed these conditions from the legally binding Withdrawal Agreement and added them to the Political Statement. There were over 120 out of approx 125 points to the withdrawal agreement which were unchanged from May's deal. So why the need to remove these particular ones? They weren't removed so they could strengthen those rights, they were removed so that those rights can be demolished.
And to deliver for Trump.

..

My point is that the vote has been made. We will leave. Squabbling over the possibility of another referendum achieves nothing but delaying (over and over again) productive conversations. At the moment every single suggestion put forward is met with an outright 'no' and for example in the case of Corbyn, before he could have even reasonably read the bloody deal. That to me makes the whole thing a mockery. We have a team of MPs who should be discussing together the best of course of action. Stomping their feet or blaming one person for this situation today is childish.

It is possible that a lot of people didn't vote in the referendum precisely because they didn't think they understood any of it well enough. I suspect a lot of them will now have an opinion.

At the moment every single suggestion put forward is met with an outright 'no'

Why do you think that is?

🙄 Struth. There's not even room for a conversation on here. Jab jab jab. Never mind....

But there’s never any answers to these questions! What are the benefits to leaving? What is a good exit deal? How do we bring the country back together? How will no deal work for us?

I’ve asked these things probably a thousand times in the past 3 years and not once have I ever had an answer that even remotely explains any of these things.

We have a team of MPs who should be discussing together the best of course of action
No, we had two prime ministers before this man child. One of which ran away from his responsibilities directly after the vote, the second of which spent the best part of three years trying to appease the right wing of her party rather than encouraging cross party support for a way to leave that would cause minimal damage.
Party before country as always.
So to dismiss MPs doing what they are supposed to be doing now as jumping up and down like spoilt children is delusion of the highest order.
Leavers wanted their own sovereignty, well MPs are delivering on that. They want de Pfeffel Johnson's deal scrutinised rather than just blindingly trusting a proven liar.

I don’t think there will be civil unrest. The letter went last night and everyone is still going on as usual. If it gets delayed people won’t have the extra energy to riot unrest something that’s that abstract. There’ll still be food etc

However the mobbing the MPs actually made me feel emotional when I heard it on R4. Just the level of anger and the divide.