Brexit postponed

[MarianaMoatedGrange]

AIBU to worry that the (almost certain) delay in Brexit will give rise to civil unrest?

SesameOil

The polls did close towards the end - what’s to say that wouldn’t happen now and now we have a large group of people who are just fed up and want to move forward - if Remain win the second referendum that wouldn’t be the end of the process there would be a demand for a third this few people would support

If there was ever really going to be a second referendum it would have happened by now. Unfortunately remain MP’s didn’t work together many voted to trigger article 50 Labour are now clutching straws to appeal to voters - you have been duped too once Article 50 was triggered our fate was sealed - that maybe more obvious when you are feeling less emotional about this whole process

Euthanasia. You are wrong. May should have sought cross party consensus before triggering A50. We were told that negotiations couldn’t start until it was triggered. All she did was appease the right of her party.
It feels like a sneer, that remainders will stop being emotional once it’s all settled down.
I’m just going to drop this here www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/20/the-guardian-view-on-deadlock-in-parliament-still-time-to-thwart-johnsons-reckless-deal
Even if you’re not a wishy washy lefties it makes interesting reading.
The far right are wetting their pants in anticipation of a no deal Brexit. All they have to do run the clock down for a few more months then we are out. Competing with our neighbours. Cutting our rights will make us more competitive they say. None of this is hidden. They’ve been telling us. But leavers with nothing to lose weren’t and aren’t listening. More fool them. They deserve the hardest of losses tbh

After we leave the next govenment is going to have to plan instead of just reacting.
For so long the UK has just ridden the tide, nothing has changed for so long.
Now when we leave, they will have to do better to get voted in.

To some extent, all governments have to "ride the tide" because we are all impacted by global events which are beyond our control.

I'm not clear what period you're referring to when you say "so long". I have seen massive political changes in my lifetime, but I'm 64, and I daresay you're a fair bit younger @mummmy2017 (most people are!).

But just going back 10 years, to 2009, things were much better. There had not been a massive pay freeze in the public sector or huge cuts in public services, benefits hadn't been frozen (no bedroom tax or benefits restricted to 2 children either), tuition fees hadn't been trebled, the local housing allowance had only just been introduced and was barely having an impact.

Locally, we still had sure start and all our children's centres were still open, libraries were still open all day, at least 5 days a week, the council tip was open 8-6 instead of 9.30 till 4, our first bus was at 7 (now 8.30), the council cut the verges and hedgerows twice a year, now it's once and they're so overgrown you can't what's coming in places. We didn't have any food banks in my middle-class, affluent town (now 4 of them) and there were no beggars in shop doorways (now 6 regular ones). I could go online and easily get an appointment at a GP and when I needed orthopaedic surgery, I got an appointment in less than 6 months (currently, the referral pathway involves an assessment by an advanced physio, for which the wait is 12 months) and the operation was done less 3 months later.

Things have gone to shite, but I'm still paying virtually the same in tax and NI, and council tax has nearly doubled.

In my job, I was doing maybe one homeless application every 6-8 weeks, instead of 1 or 2 weekly, and the situation for my clients (all vulnerable, in some way) is a hundred times worse than 10 years ago.

The governments elected in 2010, 2015 and 2017 did plan, imo, they planned to make the poor and vulnerable pay the price of the global financial crisis while corporation tax was cut from 28% to 19% over the same period to benefit their fat cat friends and backers.

You think they didn't "plan" any of that? And still they got voted in, not once, but 3 times.

Whatever happens now there's no solution that won't lead to at least a large minority of the population being very unhappy and vocally advocating for change euthanasia. There's no way around that really. The genie is out of the bottle. If you want to make predictions as to what's going to happen in terms of second referendum, leaving arrangements etc, you're a braver woman than I (or maybe you just have a more impressive crystal ball!) but this one guess, I do feel comfortable making.

I saw an interesting tweet the other day pointing out that one effect of the referendum and aftermath has been that the UK now has one of the most vocal pro-EU movements of any country. Not shared by the whole population of course, but there are millions of people marching in support of membership and others flying flags, showing their support with clothing, badges etc. I hadn't thought of that before but it's a really good point. It certainly isn't something that was happening before June 2016.

There should have always been cross party committee to deal with negotiations

MP’s had a chance to not support the party line to trigger Article 50 but few did - only one Tory.

It isn’t a sneer I have said all along that people vote on emotion not just logic and I include myself - and if you read my other posts I have said I know I have been duped too I did believe that Article 50 could have been revoked (have never supported a second referendum as believe theat the result would be the same) but realise now this would never have happened why so close to the end are parties putting these proposals forward

Labour are now clutching at straws with another GE in mind as they are well aware that conservatives are comfortably ahead in the polls. A second referendum isn’t going to pass through parliament now - this should have been put forward when the chances could have still been there

Exactly LakieLady
But ‘feelz’ innit
I work in the public sector as well. My job is secure-ish. But financially I’m ok even if it isn’t.
Those with nothing are going to find out what it’s like to be even poorer.
They have been played. It was all in plain sight. But their prejudices won’t let them see it. The anti Labour rhetoric they parrot without stopping to think why Corbyn is such a threat. He is of course. To the right wing disaster capitalists, the posh boys club and the offshore trust holders. He is not a threat to the workers of this country.
Ah well. You can’t argue with stupid. It just drags you down to its level and then beats you with experience.

More housing.
Better care for the retired, to free up hospital beds.
Someone to invent a money grabber that helps our economy.
Lower rents, and house prices .
Free cake every Friday.

I don't know of anything in EU regulations that prevents any of the above, with the possible exception of free cake.

One thing's for certain, the right to 28 days paid holiday, a maximum 48 hour working week and generous maternity rights will be among the first to go, all disguised as being a "boost for business". How far behind consumer protection (Food Safety Act?) and environmental protection (various Waste Water Treatment directives) won't be far behind.

Then we'll all be able to enjoy spending our one day off a week sitting on a shit-covered beach eating our chlorinated chicken sandwiches.

The UK media have done a cracking job in persuading the low skilled, low paid and unemployed to vote for Brexit. There is no Brexit scenario which ends in them being better off.

Once Brexit happens and the economic downturn kicks in the government will have to do things to make the UK more attractive to business, such as removing workers rights, cutting business taxes. On the other side in order to keep the educated and mobile professionals from fleeing, they will have to reduce taxes. All of this will result in lower tax intake and more austerity.

Forget child benefit for even one child, forget tax credits, forget anything over two weeks paid leave, forget mat and pat leave, state pensions, NHS for everything but life and death medical emergencies. Get used to ‘fire at will’, state school lunches being sponsored by McDonalds so they can afford to buy books. The difference in outcomes for kids from private/grammar and state schools will be even greater.

House prices will not go down in places like London because they’ll turn into Singapore on steroids. If you haven’t got on the housing ladder in the big cities by the time we know what flavour of Brexit we will have, forget it. You will rent forever as house prices will accelerate even faster once the uncertainty is over and the global rich see England as a cheap, low tax area where the currency is so weak they can buy 3 apartments for the price of one back home and rent them out.

Our economic model will be one that is a global , low tax trade hub, the Singapore of the West. The low skilled and unemployed will not do well under that model. Maybe big pharma will be allowed to drug them with pain killers to keep them docile like in America?

@theunknownknown

You're right of course, and I should know better.

Actually, I do know better, but once in a while I read something so utterly absurd that I know that I know, which makes it an unknown known, just temporarily.

I am gobsmacked at Mummy's naivety. There is NO point in how she thinks her life will be better when/if we leave because she says there is no answer to that, and she doesn't know yet.

I'm buggered if I'd be voting for something where I didn't know the outcome. It's like deciding to buy a car and ending up with a 3 ton lorry that guzzles petrol instead of a Fiat 500.

mummy to me you are taking great delight in droning on 'we are leaving we are leaving' with not an iota of knowledge. It honestly sounds like you want to piss of the 15million who voted Remain. I'm not sure what your Agenda is when you come from such a position of ignorance. You make no comment on proven facts, experts research, nothing. You just want to leave for no reason.

The far right are wetting their pants in anticipation of a no deal Brexit. All they have to do run the clock down for a few more months then we are out. Competing with our neighbours. Cutting our rights will make us more competitive they say. None of this is hidden. They’ve been telling us. But leavers with nothing to lose weren’t and aren’t listening. More fool them. They deserve the hardest of losses tbh

I agree.

You get ‘man of the people’JRM stating that the increase is food bank usage is ‘uplifting’ and millions of people nod in agreement like those Churchill dogs people used to have in their car!

....

Boris was voted in to get us out.
Voted in by his party who won an Election.

The Tories didn’t win the last election. That’s why Johnson hasn’t got the numbers and is being defeated time after time in the Commons. There’s no mandate for all this.

Just as an aside. Part of my job means I handle passports. I need to see a valid one. The one I’ve just handled runs out in a few days. ‘Oh, you’re cutting it fine’ I said to him. You know what he said? ‘I know, and I’m not getting a new one til Brexit has been done, cos I want a blue one’
Fucking stupid prick.
I felt obliged to point out to him he could always have had a blue one.

JRM is vile. Here is a pic of him the same age as the son he manipulatively decided to take into the HoC on Saturday. A privileged life, desperate for No Deal, wants to ram it through because he will reap the benefit of a huge windfall if we exit the single market. We're talking millions here, do you think he cares about you Mummy?
Here is an article from a reputed news source although I doubt you'll read it

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/jacob-rees-mogg-line-huge-personal-windfall-britain-exits-single-market/07/02/

Do you honestly think you can trust this man Mummy?

p.s. in case you don't enlarge the photo, this is Jacob Rees Mogg wearing a monocle. Nanny tried to make him take it off for the pic, he refused.

He is only 50. Let that sink in. He is so privileged he used to wear a monocle !!

It’s also in the hard rights interests to have remain and leave voters at each other’s throats. Notice how they call the leave voters ‘the people’ and ignore the remainers (for now)? They need the leavers to keep up the momentum to make Brexit happen.

Research shows that remainers tend to be higher educated and thus wealthier. What they want is for the remainers to equate leavers with the deserving poor. Then like in America, once things get really bad and the gap between the rich and poor widens further, the wealthier people will not feel sorry for the poor because they ‘deserve it’ and brought it all on themselves. Bad schools? ‘They deserve it. If they work harder they will achieve anyway’. Bad housing? ‘They deserve it. Why should people in my neighbourhood pay for repairs in their neighbourhood? If they want better they should work harder like me’. Poor healthcare. They deserve it ‘why should I pay into a pot to help people who don’t work hard for themselves’.

The ground is being laid for the full Americanisation of our country with all of their inequalities. We were heading that way but anyway but it wasn’t going fasting enough for the ‘Britannia Unchained’ gang.

The Tories didn’t win the last election. That’s why Johnson hasn’t got the numbers and is being defeated time after time in the Commons. There’s no mandate for all this

Just pointing out BJ did actually want an election but was stopped from having one presumably because the rest of the HOCs was quite happy with the set up as it stands.

Damn, this post title got my hopes up there.

An election was opposed until no deal was ruled out. This was well documented.

No. He was stopped from having one because the grown ups don’t trust this man child.
Critical thinking needs to be employed. Not strap lines. And definitely not anything that comes from the mouth of any Tory minister.

Just pointing out BJ did actually want an election but was stopped from having one presumably because the rest of the HOCs was quite happy with the set up as it stands.

Just pointing out that wanting an election isn’t the same as having one, let alone winning it.

The hilarious thing is my father (working class leaver) thinks JRM does care about ordinary people. Unbelievable!

Ironically as the only remain voter in my family I'm going to suffer the most from Brexshit. Leave voting parents and grandmother have paid off their mortgages and have a decent pension; leave voting brother is on a high salary so they won't feel it as much as me, on an average salary with a mortgage. It makes me sick.

And their reasons WTF