Brexit postponed

[MarianaMoatedGrange]

AIBU to worry that the (almost certain) delay in Brexit will give rise to civil unrest?

Let’s be honest nothing that a leaver is going to say will be agreed with or seen as a sensible argument it’s just patronizing

She said earlier on things had been awful for many years under consecutive governments and things had got harder not better and the chance came for a change

That is your answer. That is why many voted leave

Ok if we accept that a change is required why do leavers feel that it's the EU's 'fault' that their lives are without hope?

@LaurieMarlow
Do you actually know any doctors?

Recently retired Consultant here.

And I do know what I'm talking about.

I'm afraid it doesn't quite work as you seem to think.

I can’t speak on behalf of why leavers think it’s the fault of the EU

But that was the answer she gave and one I have heard time and time again from leavers - I voted with project fear in mind (as many did) many voted out of fear of nothing changing

I have asked the question repeatedly since all this began in 2016, why do they think it's the EU causing this. I was asking it back then in the hope of making perhaps just one or two change their vote. I still vaguely hope, although it diminishes more and more each day, that if we turn enough reasonable Leave voters we can stop this madness.

There are 27 countries in the EU that do not have the same issues, or in the same way, or to the same extent. This is British decision making. But you can't get that though.

I think many remainers (I'm a remainer) forget that's in not all about the facts.

Oh no, I am well aware of that. The thing is people are going to die in this country for their bloody emotional sentiment. Many of us will or may face hardships of some sort. I resent that enormously. That kind of sentimentality is not something I've ever been able to afford.

Euthanasia
I could accept that as a reason as I have said in a previous vote. But now that the real pain of leaving (economically) has been pointed out again and again and again, what excuse is there for maintaining that position?
It is simply not good enough to not have a concrete reason rather than a visceral one for leaving. Especially now that the real reasons for leaving and the real damage it is going to do has been made clear.
The only reason to vote leave (according to Mummy2017) was a feeling that life was never going to improve (I'm paraphrasing). All we want to know was in what way was the EU responsible for her circumstances? I don't know her exact circumstances but from what she has said I'm willing to bet that all of her difficulties were caused by a tory government. Not the EU - I just would like the answer to one simply question - name one EU law that has had a detrimental effect on Mummy's life. Just one.

I completely agree we need change. I'm not a million miles away from Brexiteers, I share many of the same concerns and anger. This isn't the change we need. Quite the reverse. I also see Brexit as having a strong male element, something coming from and encouraging male aggression and authoritarianism and there is no way I will support that, now or ever.

Exactly Dark. I said to my daughter the night of the referendum that we can never underestimate the people who have been hurt most by tory policies and the communities that have been decimated by the lack of manufacturing.
But that change should have come from a change of government in 2015. Austerity was a camouflage to run down public services and provision. I am angry at Labour for not doing enough to refute the tory lies around labour destroying the economy. Funny that Javed has now found the magic money tree at the back of the garden in No 11. They must think we are stupid. The tory mantra is to literally slash and burn. Run down our infrastructure so that it can be sold off cheaply to their chums.
Being a member of the EU was a bit of a safety net. That will now be ripped away.
If it is, I hope posters like Mummy are happy with how their lot goes. As above, I reckon I will have to search far and wide to find someone who admits to being a leave voter in a few years time.

as pointed out before people voted emotionally I don’t think that has changed so that reasoning will still be the reason why they would vote the same way again

It’s irrelevant it’s not a good enough answer that is the answer

This is how voting has always worked promises of change and playing on people’s fears and hopes I can’t think of an election that has been won on let’s keep things same

AIBU to worry that the (almost certain) delay in Brexit will give rise to civil unrest?
Tbf if there has not been civil unrest by now in the UK it is safe to say there won't be.

@theunknownknown
I don't understand why you seem to be struggling with this?

They don't have an excuse or a reason. It's visceral. They don't need any other justification in their eyes.

I do think that there only explanation for the undeniable fact that Leavers can never give an example of how their lives will be better after Brexit is that it’s an emotional thing not a practical thing.

It's been three years since the vote. A lot of people who voted have died in that time and a lot more - those who this will affect the most - come of voting age. It's ludicrous.

Hard week, fell asleep down stairs.
Ok , I will try to explain.
I know you all feel Ireland was a point that should have made people vote Remain, but the news, the papers and TV did not make it the issue , very few people realised just how much it would matter.
Personally and this is only my view , I truly think agreements can be changed if people prefer that to violence. A gun does not fire its self.
You ask for answers, but there are too many unknowns , how can you have answers to unknowns. Even business leaders agree with this .
I have always wanted to leave the EU club, I see it as like Ivy, you plant it in a garden and it slowly grows to cover everything, it was a trading club.
To be honest I can understand what your all saying, and see that yes while it makes so much more sense to remain and just accept , stay causing no problems, and might even be a monetary no brainer it comes down to this one thing.
David Cameron said you can have a vote.
Tories thought it would be a hung Parliament, and shock he won.
So he gave a vote, that he expected to win.
In his words The latent anti brexit feeling was so strong in all walks of life, that given a free vote on the only time every we were told we could leave , people said yes please.

If the Tory's are so bad, why do they get voted in?
Labour lost power due to Ed Miliband.
He stood there with that stupid sign made of stone, expecting to win and no one trusted him enought to be PM.
I would have voted for his brother.
Then there was that note saying the country was broke, a joke yes but true.
How do you spend money you just don't have?

If the Tory's are so bad, why do they get voted in?

Because people are credulous and believe their lies about caring for those who don't have the resources to help themselves. And because the rich don't give a fuck about ordinary people, mostly.

The Tories have always been the party of the rich and that will never change. Your explanation of your vote earlier in this thread was heartbreaking. Please, please, don't vote Tory. They aren't the people who will help you.

But not will labour help me.
I voted for something I want to happen for us to leave the EU.
Labour frightens me.
The way it is heading.
Corbyn saying he will take over football clubs, why just why?
This two party system does not work, but there is no third party that can win.

This two party system does not work, but there is no third party that can win
Their is a massive difference in their political views.
It is a shame there is no middle ground to look after all the people? Not pitch the wc and mc off each other.
Benefits were ridiculous under labour they are still ridiculous under Tories though complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

*There

Someone up thread posted that people voted emotionally not logically. Why on earth do we let emotion into the most important decision the country will face in 50 years? I suss pectin only leave voters voted in this way... there being no rational reason to leave!

*suspect

Still no cogent argument is presented to explain how leaving the EU will benefit anyone except disaster speculators like Mogg. The result of a leave vote was always going to be destabilisation, a reduction in standards/rights and a poorer quality of life. It was clear from the start for anyone who wanted to look past the end of their nose.

Mummy - Why do you believe labour ‘spent money they just don’t have?’ Do you understand that the global recession was caused by the banks with their mortgage bonds and how this eventually affected us with the bailout etc?

Sorry but it’s frustrating to see that you just believe all the sound bites without actually thinking critically about what they are saying. You are a struggling single mum and you voted Tory, just why? FWIW my DP is an employer, our family would probably benefit from deregulation but I don’t want this to happen as I know it will be devastating for some groups.

Also read this if you want to know about the national debt fullfact.org/economy/public-debt/

This is why we need strong punishments for public servants who knowingly mislead the public, like Caroline Flint with her tweet on Friday that said labour had ‘secured legally binding protection on workers rights’ knowing full well that the promises are not legally binding. This should be misconduct in a public office and jail time imo. If this happens to a couple of them maybe they will stop feeding us a load of tosh. You wouldn’t accept doctors, teachers and police officers to deliberately mislead you so why do we allow our MP’s to do so?

I agree with mummy in that I will never vote labour right now.

They need a change in direction and a new leader.

Some of the ideas they have tossed about are terrifying. Ok they may not actually happen but the fact they can even consider them as feasible is ridiculous.

Just to go back to the original post.

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/28/boris-johnson-invoke-civil-emergency-powers-brexit-deal?__twitter_impression=true