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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Brexit postponed

654 replies

MarianaMoatedGrange · 19/10/2019 21:08

AIBU to worry that the (almost certain) delay in Brexit will give rise to civil unrest?

OP posts:
Roussette · 20/10/2019 20:51

Hmm strange that if I am so wrong, we are still looking no deal in the eyes, nose to nose

And you sound very pleased about that. I just wish you would post one thing that you personally think will be better when we leave the EU

Just one.

KennDodd · 20/10/2019 20:52

@mummmy2017

That we voted to go, that we are willing to accept what ever happens

Does that include people dying in NI (and the mainland) again?

Limitedsimba123 · 20/10/2019 20:52

FFS mamamia. Look at who is pushing for this. Joint the dots.

Mummy, I posted this on another thread in response to the ‘we can just vote the bad lot out after Brexit is done” point:

You are over stating the power we have as individuals in our representative democracy. If Parliament decided to revoke A50 tomorrow what power do you have to stop this?

People generally don’t vote for a party due to a single policy, ie, if you polled everyone who voted Tory in the last 10 years to ask if they supported benefit cuts for disabled people I assume the majority would say no, but they voted Tory anyway and the cuts happened in any event.

Take for example deregulation of food standards and the privatisation of the NHS. IMO it plays out as the below:

Government to Daily Mail General Trust: US are insisting we take their chlorinated chicken and privatise some NHS services to get the trade deal over the line. Public would need to make contributions for some elective surgeries. We have identified elective joint replacement as a good starting point and could really use your support on this.

Owner of DMGT: Invests in US agricultural and healthcare companies and then runs the following stories on chicken:

A dailymail study shows 90% of the chicken on sale in our supermarkets contains harmful bacteria that could KILL you.
I almost died of salmonella poisoning from unsafe chicken (daily mail sad face).
British people are overpaying for chicken: US people pay x% less

On NHS:
Data shows that 90% of patients who had joint replacement surgery in last 5 years had a BMI of 30 or more.
Joint replacement surgery took up X amount of NHS budget in last 3 years, meanwhile people with Cancer lose out.
X% of NHS trusts are failing to meet budget requirements, this is affecting patient safety, PHE warn.

Before you know it, the average daily mail reader is saying this: “what’s so bad about chlorinated chicken? It is safer and cheaper. And people don’t have to buy it if they don’t want to, i’m sure Waitrose aren’t going to suddenly stop selling their organic corn fed chickens, they can just buy them like I do.” And “why should us thin people be penalised for the choices of obese people, they are a drain on the NHS and it’s only right they should contribute. I don’t know why everyone doesn’t have BUPA anyway, they were excellent with my FIL’s knee replacement” etc etc.

Meanwhile, average Mumsnet Tory voter is saying this, “I’m not saying i support all of their policies, but for our family they make the most economic sense and I’m going to obviously vote for what is best for us.”

Until we have much stricter regulation on who can become an MP in the first place (ie no one who has any interests/family interests in investments as they are open to creating policy for financial gain) and stronger punishments for MPs who mislead the public (ie jail time for telling us 5 weeks is necessary to prepare for Queens speech when they have just done it in a few days) then we can’t trust that MPs actually have our best interests at heart or that they will go ahead and implement any of the policies in their manifestos.

Bigeater · 20/10/2019 21:10

Let's not scare mummy off, I genuinely want to hear the leaver view to try and understand.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 20/10/2019 21:12

There are a handful of MP’s who I feel have acted with professionalism and integrity in recent years and that is both sides of the referendum and the house

The last three years have highlighted this

KennDodd · 20/10/2019 21:15

Bigeater

I agree, let's not scare her off. It is frustrating though, it's like talking to a flat earther.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 20/10/2019 21:21

Mummy is very likely to be back later this week

And will be feeling very pleased and somewhat I’m guessing somewhat smug

DarkAtEndOfUk · 20/10/2019 21:26

I would genuinely like to know what it is I am missing. It's huge to generate so much faith that "everything will be fine", and I just cannot see it.

frumpety · 20/10/2019 21:28

Did anyone else notice the tax avoidance stuff got moved to the PD too ?
Also had to chuckle that the SFO chose yesterday to say they were shutting down the Libor rigging enquiry, I mean it was a perfect day to chuck that bit of news into the ether , sank without a trace. Hmm

Anything mentioned in the PD is not legally binding, anything mentioned in it can be reneged on at anytime with a shrug of the shoulders !
this is a rather good link for anyone interested

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/brexit-deal-political-declaration

frumpety · 20/10/2019 21:33

To be fair I think the UK's tax avoidance rules are set pretty high as it is and am unsure how far reaching any EU laws are with regards to offshore stuff ?

BertrandRussell · 20/10/2019 21:48

There’s a twitter rumour that there’ll be an extension til February....

Mamamia456 · 20/10/2019 21:57

KenDodd - Are you sure you don't want her to come back so you can all continue to gang up on her. It's like watching a group of kids in the playground picking on another one.

timshelthechoice · 20/10/2019 22:06

There’s a twitter rumour that there’ll be an extension til February....

I honestly wonder what will be resolved by then, however, and believe me, I'm no Leaver, or Tory, but they'll just carry on arguing.

Roussette · 20/10/2019 22:16

Mamamia I think posters have been remarkably constrained and patient given the not wanting to understand from Mummy. I asked questions from her but there were no answers.

Having said that well done Mummy sticking it out when there are very very few agreeing with you

Bigeater · 20/10/2019 22:18

I stuck up for mummy as I don't believe it's helpful to ridicule, god knows we need to try and understand each other more now than ever. We just cannot continue sounding off in our own echo chambers (over used expression I know sorry)

LittleGreenRobot · 20/10/2019 22:26

Rousette - I think the reason why there are very few leavers on this thread and @mummy is alone defending her points, is that the leavers traditionally have got a hard time on mumsnet. They generally tend to be patronised and insulted. They get called racist, ignorant, gullible and much worse. So, most leavers stay away now and leave the remainers to it. Sad, but true.

madeyemoodysmum · 20/10/2019 22:29

Saturn is in Capricorn till March next year so it won’t be sorted till then Grin

DarkAtEndOfUk · 20/10/2019 22:38

LittleGreenRobot - nothing to do with the fact that Leavers simply will not answer simple questions then? I haven't called Leavers racist.

Tellmetruth4 · 20/10/2019 22:40

@Limitedsimba123, fantastic post.

theunknownknown · 20/10/2019 22:43

LittleGreenRobot
Come now, that is simply not true. Many people today have asked for one, just one example of how leaving will benefit the majority of working people in this country. I have asked for an example of one, just one EU law that has had a detrimental effect on the majority of working people in this country.
What has been offered in support of Brexit is an airy fairy incredulity that this government would do anything dishonourable. And an unquantifiable feeling that things will be fine.
I have yet to hear Mummy2017 make any point at all. Fair play to her for returning though. I just wish she had something of substance to say.

Pumperthepumper · 20/10/2019 22:45

@LittleGreenRobot I post about Brexit a fair old bit - I don’t eye roll or name call, I try to be fair because I really, really would love to be convinced about Brexit. If we’re stuck with it and it’s happening, I’d love to hear one single positive outcome for us - a real positive on how we’ll be better off, not the guff about the empire or Britain’s standing in the world.

I have never, ever had an answer from a leaver. Not once. I’ve only had ‘why should I tell you the positives?’ Which is maybe fair enough but it’s a bit suspect that not one person can tell me one way Brexit will improve life in Britain.

I do think Leave voters get a hard time on here. I do wonder why they’re so reluctant to engage properly though. Take @mummmy2017 who to be fair has hung around for a good amount of time on this thread - but has refused to answer any questions about how he’ll be better off. Just a total refusal to say - because he won’t say ‘I won’t be. It’s all bullshit, it’s such obvious bullshit’ because that would mean backing down, even though ‘backing down’ is absolutely the best thing for our countries. And we all know that.

Mamamia456 · 20/10/2019 23:01

But why do you need mummy to answer those questions for you? Just so you can find fault with what she says? Google pros and cons of leaving the EU.

DarkAtEndOfUk · 20/10/2019 23:04

There's no real practical pros to leaving the EU that's why. I'm desperately trying to find some. Not one leaver can come up with any.

Pumperthepumper · 20/10/2019 23:06

@Mamamia456 this is exactly what I mean - I don’t need mummmy to answer the questions, I just need to understand her point of view. Which I can’t, because she doesn’t engage - and not just Mummmy but any leave voter who posts.

I don’t see how I could find fault with a hard positive pro-Brexit fact.

gwackywacky · 20/10/2019 23:11

I think many remainers (I'm a remainer) forget that's in not all about the facts.

Many leavers voted leave because they don't like the concept. Its emotional. They just don't want to be part of the club and if that makes life harder, so be it.

Many remainers also voted emotionally. Debate on this generally centres on facts, figures and statistics without acknowledging that it's actually a conceptual issue for many

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