What to do with a wayward son at school

[deepflatflyer]

DS2 is nearly 13 / Year 8. He's very up and down / emotional / feisty / stroppy. Always been a bit like this but probably worse due to puberty. Disappointing behaviour at school but hard to know what's causing it (if anything). Can be good in some lessons, and downright disruptive and disrespectful in others. Seems to decide there are teachers / subjects he doesn't like and so makes little effort and can be rude/disruptive. Like this in primary school too but more noticeable now. Doesn't appear to be SO bad that he's ALWAYS in trouble, and it's annoying low-level disruption rather than fighting etc, but apparently he's overall one of the worst in his year (to put into perspective it's a school with very high levels of conduct/expectations and generally not too many problems of behaviour so he does stand out). Of course I talk to him at home every time there's an issue. I'm generally strict about screen time, homework, bedtimes etc. And I do withhold treats when he's in disgrace. I've had numerous discussions with his form teacher and head of year, both of whom are very nice, and I assure them that I fully support their attitude towards discipline and any action they decide to take.

I was a bit caught off guard earlier today at work to get an absolutely ranting English teacher on the phone. She'd clearly just come out of the lesson and was very upset and called me immediately. She had every reason to be cross as his behaviour had clearly been very much out of order. But I was at a loss as to what to say. Usually misdemeanours are dealt with by writing a note in his planner and being issued with a detention. She knows he's under the eye of his Head of Year (with my full support) so I think it might have been more appropriate to have logged things officially with him (which she will no doubt do as well). I just wasn't prepared for the rant. I didn't know what to say, as what could I say? When I pointed out that, although I entirely sympathise and support any actions she wanted to take (he's going to be excluded from her lessons), there wasn't a lot I could actually do myself other than remind him he' s out of order, especially not at that moment, she said 'well, can't you take his phone or playstation away'. I'm not sure it's her place to give me parenting tips, just as I wouldn't give her teaching tips. And, in any case, he doesn't have a phone, and he only uses the PS4 sparingly at weekends. Seemed a strange thing to say. Maybe I said a strange thing. What was she wanting me to say??

I tear my hair out with this child. I do my best. Clearly he's a problem. I worry about him. What more can I do? He's very bright so, actually, he'll probably do ok academically anyway, although he'll fall short of his potential. And he'll wind up many of his teachers in the meantime. And alienate the other kids (he does have mates, but he's generally not very popular and probably seen as a bit of an idiot). He needs to learn to just shut up and put up with the teachers/lessons he doesn't like as he'll face the same in the rest of life. Do I just turn a blind eye and leave him to get on with it?

Need to hear from some other parents of disruptive kids.

It can't be all my fault as my DS1 is an angel at school. Teachers joke that they can't possibly be related ....

In my view sanctions and stopping phones etc will only take you so far and it's a better long term plan to build a stronger relationship with DS by helping him to work out s better path - and to take it without loss of face.
Have you tried talking with DS? I mean the type of conversation where you ask questions and listen, rather than imposing your views and ideas? (The latter is something that we parents often slip into and end up sounding like our own parents did a million years ago). Discussions about what's reasonable in terms of conduct. About what respect means to him and what it might mean to others ? To talk about emotional intelligence? About the impact of his behaviour on his friends and classmates , about how it might feel if someone was behaving like a time-wasting tit in the subjects he does like? A conversation that helps him to work out the consequences of his behaviours (rather than telling him what they might be). He clearly knows know to behave properly because he's doing it in other classes so this should be a straightforward conversation. Where you are tying to get him to is a realisation that even if he hates English that he just can't carry on the way he is. You may need a series of chats, rather than one big one.

In terms of the school you need to show them that you are talking action, and ask head of year for any hints and tips as they will have seen it all before.

I'd also recommend the Phillipa Perry book 'the book you wish.....'.

I also work in a school where phonecalls home are part of the behaviour policy - a lot of parents seem to like it as it helps them understand what is happening in class and they can discuss a way forward with the teacher.

I have phoned parents before and they've said it's the 2nd/3rd phonecall of the evening - which means clearly something has gone wrong that day. Usually if a parent tells me that, I will follow up with the head of year.

Constant low level disruption is actually really draining to deal with- it takes a lot of energy, takes a lot of time away from learning for others and can really derail lessons. More extreme behaviour is sometimes easier to deal with, as kids will often acknowledge what they have done is wrong after the fact - whereas with low level disruption, you're more likely to get "we were only talking" and "everyone else was doing it".

Looks like the OP's laissez-faire approach to parenting extends to her MN threads as well.

If the child is being excluded from a teacher’s lessons I assume his behaviour must have been quite bad, not just low level disruption.

Firstly read up on the teenage brain which will help you understand what's going on for him.
Secondly whta are the school doing? Ed psych? Behaviour support team? They can't just keep punishing him and not find out what is the cause.
Can you speak to him at a nicer moment and ask him why he's being so awkward?
It needs a joint response from you and school.

Child misbehaves.
Teacher follows it up by ringing home (I would imagine keeping good communication lines open is in the behaviour policy?).
Parent says, ‘what do you expect me to do about it?’

I think most of us could unpick the fact there is a problem there, and it’s not with the teacher.

Have you frogmarched him in to apologise publicly to the teacher he tried to humiliate publicly? Make an appointment with the head of house or head of year and offer to do so. He probably needs to apologise to the class too. Many of them will want to learn.

Ground him. Set a new routine of no “chilling” with mates until homework is done to a high standard. What are his friends like? You might need to arrange he spends less time with them.
Work with school around making up work time at home for lessons missed through messing around at school. Have workbooks for him to complete.
Rod of iron now will save misery later on.

Balance that with rewards, good communication between home and school and a no excuses attitude. Puberty might be a reason but most children go through puberty and don’t disrupt others learning.

Try a proper sit down meeting with head of year, ask for advice from Senco as these problems seem to have gone on for some time.
Senco doesn't mean 'child is stupid' or anything that may be upsetting for you but they will have seen this many times and may have a great input to offer.

He sounds lost. It's very easy to feel that way at that age.

Getting him involved in something outside of school that challenges him sounds like a great idea. Maybe try Duke of Edinburgh?

He needs to have the opportunity to feel like he's succeeding. If he's both bright and disruptive, it's likely he's bored at school.

My two brothers were exactly like this at school, so I do have some insight. They're both now very successful and settled men: one's an engineer and one's a Duke of Edinburgh Leader!

I think your doing a good job at staying calm in an incredibly stressful situation. Sounds like he needs an outlet separate to school for his frustrations to me - sports, drama, guitar or drum lessons maybe? Ultimately he's only 12! the school should be working with you to support him not getting cross and venting at you

No critisism, just wanted to say sorry for the horrible messages you got, no need!
I feel for you, as it's clearly an ongoing issue, and like you say what can you do?! I agree the teacher was out of line with her comments and the rant was not needed, she could have reported via usual channels and then asked for you to come in to discuss if required.
I would say you do sound laid back but you have posted for help, so you know it's an issue, you're not laid back enough to do nothing about it. All I can suggest is to try to reconnect with your son, get to really know him, how he's feeling and try and get to the bottom of it and move forward positively. I can't see some kind of harsh grounding or punishment working here, although he needs to know there are consequences to actions, and how disappointed you are to have got that call, it seems he is really struggling, and being put down further won't help.
Is there a possibility he may be depressed, or perhaps have some autistic traits? It could well explain his behaviour. Perhaps an appointment with the GP may help? Otherwise some counselling? Perhaps there are problems he has he feels he can't share with you? How is his relationship with his dad? Could he perhaps try and get him back on track?
Good luck OP

OP - I can't be bothered to RTFT but I'm sure you have had a bashing. People trying to judge you based on your post when Im sure you are having sleepless nights wondering what to do.

All I can say is I was a very badly out of control teenager myself, my mum also tore her hair out, I was distracted, ignored teachers, did no work, never did homework, was totally uninterested and basically unpunishable.

I grew out of it- I hated doing boring lessons with teachers I had no respect for - maybe strict discipline doesn't suit him? WHy should it?

I'm 42 and a successful professional - my teachers wouldn't recognise me now!

I honestly think some kids just don't suit school - why not sit him down and reason with him, tell him it gets easier at sixth form and that if he can just behave himself you will help with bribery?

Be honest, talk to him like an adult instead of constant punishment. Maybe worth a try.

Thank you very much to many of you who have taken the time to post kindly, with some really interesting points. It's made interesting and useful reading. Many of you have seen that there is more to this than meets the eye - and you're dead right. I didn't give too much background because it would have made the post even longer. But, yes, there is other stuff going on.
Thanks again for the kind posts - I know from parenting courses I've done, that the best support and advice comes from parents who are going through similar issues. It's also taught me not to judge others too harshly (as I might have done once) as parenting can throw many a curve ball. Some people have a tougher time than others. There are rarely any clear answers but it helps to think and to discuss, and to view from different perspectives. It's an ongoing learning process.

My oldest boy who is now 17 was similar in year 8. I removed him from school at the end of year 9 as he was truant more than he was there. I had done everything within my power to keep him in school, and had worked very hard to support the school. He then did the 14-16 year course at our local college, and to be honest he was abit of a twat at college too. Bless them, he made them work hard, and made me cry as I honestly thought he would wind up with nothing. He was taken on by the college again on a last chance brick laying course, his tutor was brutal with all the lads. Half the lads have left or been asked to leave already. But my boy has suddenly grown up, his attendance is at 90%, and he will probably get recommended for an apprenticeship.
Is the school the right environment for your son? Is there a different school that is less academia based?
Please dont give upon your boy.

Have you formed a plan @deepflatflyer

@Batcrazy101 Are you serious? It's a normal protocol for teachers to ring parents! Not everything has to go through the head or head of year, teachers are in full right (and are often expected to) ring home to inform parents about what has been going on.

Also, OPI would not call a teacher complaint a 'rant'. Your son sounds like a nightmare and clearly some strategies need to be put in place. Hopefully he will grow out of it (seen it happen), but maybe school can support you with strategies you can use at home- whether a behaviour mentor or something along those lines, so that he stops destroying lessons?

Yeah, maybe switch out the coke for pepsi...what??

I hope everything works out for your son, deepflatflyer. Plenty of us know how difficult it is with children sometimes, we all want to do what is best for them.

(Things certainly improved for mine when we gave up worrying :-). He made plans, did his own thing and it worked! ).

OP, I get you. My DS was absolutely horrible at school aged 10. But I wasn’t there in school to stop him doing that - I was at work earning the entire family’s keep, and if someone had decided my work could be disrupted for a rant, I’d have been pissed off.

Three things helped with my DS (high functioning ASD): a psychologist, medication, and repeatedly telling him what he was doing to the family by acting like that.

Hang in there.

and if someone had decided my work could be disrupted for a rant, I’d have been pissed off

Irony, right there.

Why so, @zeggo? If I walked into the classroom during a lesson and ranted at the teacher, would that be ok? Parents also have to deal with shit at work, work-related shit. Using the work number provided for emergencies, in a non-emergency, is pretty rude.

If that was aimed at me, @makingmammories then you seem to have missed the point of my post.

I am a teacher; people interrupting ‘my work’ for a ‘rant’ happens once an hour.

I think sharing that with a parent is necessary.

No one in a school knows your working arrangements. I get contacted by school when dc are sick etc - they don't know if they are phoning me at home, at work, or in bed with my lover. How would they?

He's very bright so, actually, he'll probably do ok academically anyway, although he'll fall short of his potential.

And never mind the other 29 children in the class that whose education he has disrupted, hey?

"I’ll get bashed for this but this is what teachers have signed up for. Not abuse not violence but dealing with young adults who are all different and deal with things in their own way, some of them are disruptive in the process. OP has already said he’s night violent just annoying. "

Erm...no, they sign up to teach.