What to do with a wayward son at school

[deepflatflyer]

DS2 is nearly 13 / Year 8. He's very up and down / emotional / feisty / stroppy. Always been a bit like this but probably worse due to puberty. Disappointing behaviour at school but hard to know what's causing it (if anything). Can be good in some lessons, and downright disruptive and disrespectful in others. Seems to decide there are teachers / subjects he doesn't like and so makes little effort and can be rude/disruptive. Like this in primary school too but more noticeable now. Doesn't appear to be SO bad that he's ALWAYS in trouble, and it's annoying low-level disruption rather than fighting etc, but apparently he's overall one of the worst in his year (to put into perspective it's a school with very high levels of conduct/expectations and generally not too many problems of behaviour so he does stand out). Of course I talk to him at home every time there's an issue. I'm generally strict about screen time, homework, bedtimes etc. And I do withhold treats when he's in disgrace. I've had numerous discussions with his form teacher and head of year, both of whom are very nice, and I assure them that I fully support their attitude towards discipline and any action they decide to take.

I was a bit caught off guard earlier today at work to get an absolutely ranting English teacher on the phone. She'd clearly just come out of the lesson and was very upset and called me immediately. She had every reason to be cross as his behaviour had clearly been very much out of order. But I was at a loss as to what to say. Usually misdemeanours are dealt with by writing a note in his planner and being issued with a detention. She knows he's under the eye of his Head of Year (with my full support) so I think it might have been more appropriate to have logged things officially with him (which she will no doubt do as well). I just wasn't prepared for the rant. I didn't know what to say, as what could I say? When I pointed out that, although I entirely sympathise and support any actions she wanted to take (he's going to be excluded from her lessons), there wasn't a lot I could actually do myself other than remind him he' s out of order, especially not at that moment, she said 'well, can't you take his phone or playstation away'. I'm not sure it's her place to give me parenting tips, just as I wouldn't give her teaching tips. And, in any case, he doesn't have a phone, and he only uses the PS4 sparingly at weekends. Seemed a strange thing to say. Maybe I said a strange thing. What was she wanting me to say??

I tear my hair out with this child. I do my best. Clearly he's a problem. I worry about him. What more can I do? He's very bright so, actually, he'll probably do ok academically anyway, although he'll fall short of his potential. And he'll wind up many of his teachers in the meantime. And alienate the other kids (he does have mates, but he's generally not very popular and probably seen as a bit of an idiot). He needs to learn to just shut up and put up with the teachers/lessons he doesn't like as he'll face the same in the rest of life. Do I just turn a blind eye and leave him to get on with it?

Need to hear from some other parents of disruptive kids.

It can't be all my fault as my DS1 is an angel at school. Teachers joke that they can't possibly be related ....

I'd say that whatever is happening now isn't working, either at school and at home.
You say he's pretty well behaved at home, what sets him off at home? What can you put in place for good behaviour? Does he have a card that's signed each lesson to say how well he's behaved, could you reward based on that. That said, if he's been excluded from a teachers lesson that needs addressing and there should be a sanction at home to show that you're upset, you're talking isn't acting as a deterrent.
You need to go back into school, is there a member of staff he clicks with who can be in the meeting too, whatever they have in place isn't enough either, they need a new plan. I'd also ask what happens if he carries on how he is.

The issue is that you feel so helpless because you can't control his behaviour in school whatever you do out of school.
So a teacher catching you unawares asking what you are doing to do about how your child just behaved in their lesson will spark a reply that isn't always helpful.

Can you send her personally or office and email for her attention just explaining you were caught unawares, didn't mean to sound dismissive and encourage her to speak to HOY who will fill her in on how you are working with school. And reapologise for the behaviour?

And when my ds was in a secondary (he moved because they were crap) and they asked how I punished him at home for school things (whilst also denying there were issues because they didn't want to support him ) I said I didn't. They had to log, record and set consequences at school and I would do the same for behaviours at home.

Different situation as my ds is autistic and he was melting down at home due to lack of support in school. They wouldn't recognise this and I felt as they were cause of home behaviours unless they were willing to work both ways it was no good.

He moved schools and then got an echp. Never any issues. Purely attitude from staff and a whole school ethos can make massive difference. If the school is a zero tolerance one it may not be the pace for him. It may be too much pressure to always be perfect and that in turn can then cause behaviours.

I'd look at the bigger picture and whether a different school or form of education would suit him better.

DS is like this. I am going to give you some advice. ( I rarely do but as you have asked) . At school make all the right noises , when a teacher calls, say the right things. Eg ' I am very sorry you have to out up with that, it is not acceptable for you'. Tell them the things you have already done to try to ensure your ds's behaviour improves and support whatever they wish to do ( within reason) .

However with your DS, I would take a much softer approach. I would want him to talk to me and would like to know why he misbehaves in some lessons and not others.

I'd work with him to see how he thinks things can be resolved as I.will absolutely guarantee that he is not.happy the way things are at the moment. You may find he has some problems and you may need to be an intermediary between him and the school. If this is the case, the school will be far more receptive if you have a good relationship with them

Teachers are paid to TEACH. Nothing else

So it's not a teachers job to understand that they are shaping the lives of young children/teens and that at this point in their lives they are learning g who they are and going through a whole lost of hormonal and body changes. If you cant understand this or even deal with it then maybe teachingnisnt for you.

Not violent behaviour or abusive behaviour. What OP has described isn't that thought.

Its nktnoarents faults that teachers think class rooms are too full and they cant do their job because of this but if you cant cope with a little disruption then teaching probably isn't for you. Young teems are not designed to sit down and stay still all day.

if you cant cope with a little disruption then teaching probably isn't for you.

Patronising wankery.

Persistent low level disruption needs to be taken seriously as so many learning hours are lost due to it.

but if you cant cope with a little disruption then teaching probably isn't for you.

When you say “cope”, what do you mean? Tolerate, or prevent? As a teacher I can’t prevent children from disrupting my lessons. I can take many and varied steps to discourage it, but it’s their decision in the end. But I could tolerate it without any issues. I’m just not sure that’s a very good idea...

if you cant cope with a little disruption then teaching probably isn't for you.

What noble posted, with an attitude like this you clearly don't understand the issue.

I teach English in a PRU.

Whoever said it's almost impossible to get excluded nowadays is talking absolute bollocks. We are full to bursting, with more and more students arriving every week for whom we HAVE to provide an education.

Also, whoever said most children like English is also talking bollocks!

Why should teachers have to cope with disruption? Why should the other 29 kids have to cope with the disruption of one inconsiderate child? At high school age teachers are there to reach not manage behaviour.

If he’s disrupting others, the fact that he’s bright is neither here nor there. Other kids will be missing out because of his behaviour. I would suggest:

• set up a meeting at school for you, your son and appropriate teachers (his form teacher maybe) to talk about what’s going on. Work put some way that you can be informed regularly about his behaviour.

• consider whether he might benefit from some sessions with a psychologist who specialises in adolescents. I would assume you’d have to do this privately as he wouldn’t be an urgent case for NHS and waiting lists are long.

I sympathise with your experience on the phone. It’s hard to shift mode and respond appropriately when you’re called at work. That’s why I think it’s worth setting up. Meeting and giving everyone (inc your son) a chance to think about what they want to say.

My son was a pain and I got a call. I apologised on his behalf said I would give him a rocket and asked for school to call again in a fortnight to update me.

I gave him both a telling off and a talking with and told him the poor behaviour stopped. Like your son he was choosing where to misbehave. There have been no problems since and if there are I will be delighted if that pattern is broken early after contact from staff.

We kick kids like this out before they disrupt others' learning.

You do? Which school system are you working in? That's not what I've encountered at all. Sure, some kids do get kicked out in the end, and others will get the support they need and the problem will be solved that way, but either way it's a long slow process and it doesn't usually happen before other kids' learning has been at least somewhat disrupted.

Carrots and sticks. You need to know what motivates him and I suspect that in this case it's a child struggling in some way with the school environment/ expectations/ socially/ emotionally rather than just being a dick for the cheap laughs.

Does he talk much about what's going on? Does he have much physical/ emotional outlet? What's his life like outside school.

I'm not at the teen years yet but have been a secondary teacher. I have a DS who is fortunately great at school, but all the frustration of fitting in at school explodes at home. He certainly doesn't get away with his outbursts consequence free, but it's also essential that we talk about the triggers, and how to manage better next time and have an emotionally open relationship. In our case dyslexia, dyspraxia and sensory issues are a major trigger (also on lengthy waiting list for ASD assessment) He is fortunate to go to a school that suits him, fairly small and cosy and his teachers recognised the massive disparity between his strengths and difficulties and fortunately has never been tarnished as being "lazy".

No teacher should be ground down by constant "low level disruption" and most classroom teachers simply don't have the contact time to invest in really getting to know the difficult members of the class, they are already stretched thin over 29 others and the curriculum to get through without excuses, no matter how difficult individuals/ classes were.

Absolutely agree teachers shouldn't have to put up with constant disruption.

But these issues are wider. Pupils don't really have a choice where they go to school now. It's generally the closest if you're lucky or shipped out by bus to a super new academy.
You don't really get to choose a school that's ethos and way of doing things suits your child. You don't have vocational courses at schools now and the range of GCSEs seems much more limited.

I know everyone says just knuckle down and to some extent they're right. But imagine being forced to do a job with an autocratic boss for 5 years that you hated with absolutely no way out.

Some children feel like this and hit the negative cycle.

My son has been to 2 secondaries. He's not a different child and his personality hasn't changed. First one he was an anxious wreck who self harmed and tried to make me crash car to kill us both on journey home numerous times. Second one he's happy, gained confidence and is achieving well. It's because the school is a better fit for children with send and have a great ethos and want to help. The first has damaged more send children than I have had hot dinners (and they always get driven out in May time (🤔).

Can you look into possibility of a UTC/ 14-19 school/ college for 14+ courses? It maybe he needs a different environment to flourish and constant punishment isn't going to help. I'm a true believer if they are losing everything from behaviour and it's still continuing (so they are gaining nothing from it) then there's more to it.

I don't think you get it, either OP.

You remind me of the parents I met at parent's evening. Their son was struggling in all of his classes and the other teachers were losing patience with him as he was delaying lessons (always late, never had the right stuff, lost homework, etc). I made some helpful suggestions (pack bag night before, make a list of what he needs and help him tick them off, write down what each lesson requires, etc) and the Dad said 'that's a job for you!' (after slagging off the area I am from!).

I wonder if you realise how much is currently being done for your son in school already by other adults alongside all the other children they have to deal with. I left teaching and no one can advocate on behalf of the 'badly behaved but undiscovered genius teenage boy' in the job anymore because no one can tolerate that when there are so many genuine needs.

I also think you should show him this thread.

I worked in a school in Ireland. They took all of their year 7 boys to the main jail in Dublin. This is a jail that is regularly in trouble with the EU HR Commission as it has overcrowding/no toilets in rooms. The boys are brought in and speak to the inmates. it shocks the life out of them.

Can you see that when boys like yours display the behaviour they do that the compassion is driven out of the profession to be replaced by something far worse?

if every teacher was to call every parent of a child that gave them a hard time that day then they would never get any teaching done!!
Well quite. So if you get a phone call from a teacher, you can be sure their behaviour was seriously bad.

I have to say I can’t get past low level disruption but worst I. The year really isn’t low level disruption. That is a child with a behaviour problem

I agree with poster who said if teacher phoned ranting she has really had enough .

I am also wondering why no phone . Is he isolated from his peers?

I'd suggest moving him to another school asap before he gets thrown out of the one he's at. A change of scene may be what he needs - new friends, new teachers, etc.

When you say “cope”, what do you mean?
I mean not calling a parent and basically venting that they have had a hard lesson with their child. There should be a process of dealing with children who become disruptive to the point of a teacher blowing steam at a parent and telling them to take tv/playstation away. If management haven't put in a strategy to allow them to do this, that's not the childs problem.

If someone came in to complain about working in customer service and dealing with customer complaints all day then we would be saying move on, the job clearly isn't for you. Teachers deal with children, this is how some children grow...

What noble posted, with an attitude like this you clearly don't understand the issue.

I think I do thanks, but just because you have a difference of opinion doesn't mean I haven't understood the issue

Calling parents is a part of the discipline strategy in our school 🤷‍♀️

I made some helpful suggestions (pack bag night before, make a list of what he needs and help him tick them off, write down what each lesson requires, etc) and the Dad said 'that's a job for you!' (after slagging off the area I am from!).
Just so I'mits clear I'm not "anti teacher" this dad was a dick!

The first thing we’re told to do when a kid is a massive pain in the arse is phone home.

@Batcrazy101 oh yes! The problem was that the boy was very sweet and wanted help. Mum said he was a genius because he was reading a particular text (can't remember which one, now) and they didn't feel he needed the basics yet he knew he did.

Very sad as he was overweight at 11 and a few simple things would have made teenage life much easier for him.

Another boy who was being bullied internalised all the anger and again, very sweet and completely aware he needed some help and asked parents for it and they humiliated him in front of staff. Very sad. When those boys do ask you for help, or the other little boy who told me his (bullying )probems were nothing because at home, he had to be the man and take care of mum, you really do lose respect for parents who indulge bad behaviour.

Likewise for the Somalian refugee boys who saw their family members brutally murdered, the two English brothers who were being given a clean shirt each day by a teacher as they turned up in dirty clothes and the epileptic foster boy who was put in school with his sisters and when mum found out went ballistic.

Real, horrible, painful, dirty life stuff that children are having to deal with.