Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What to do with a wayward son at school

154 replies

deepflatflyer · 17/10/2019 13:24

DS2 is nearly 13 / Year 8. He's very up and down / emotional / feisty / stroppy. Always been a bit like this but probably worse due to puberty. Disappointing behaviour at school but hard to know what's causing it (if anything). Can be good in some lessons, and downright disruptive and disrespectful in others. Seems to decide there are teachers / subjects he doesn't like and so makes little effort and can be rude/disruptive. Like this in primary school too but more noticeable now. Doesn't appear to be SO bad that he's ALWAYS in trouble, and it's annoying low-level disruption rather than fighting etc, but apparently he's overall one of the worst in his year (to put into perspective it's a school with very high levels of conduct/expectations and generally not too many problems of behaviour so he does stand out). Of course I talk to him at home every time there's an issue. I'm generally strict about screen time, homework, bedtimes etc. And I do withhold treats when he's in disgrace. I've had numerous discussions with his form teacher and head of year, both of whom are very nice, and I assure them that I fully support their attitude towards discipline and any action they decide to take.

I was a bit caught off guard earlier today at work to get an absolutely ranting English teacher on the phone. She'd clearly just come out of the lesson and was very upset and called me immediately. She had every reason to be cross as his behaviour had clearly been very much out of order. But I was at a loss as to what to say. Usually misdemeanours are dealt with by writing a note in his planner and being issued with a detention. She knows he's under the eye of his Head of Year (with my full support) so I think it might have been more appropriate to have logged things officially with him (which she will no doubt do as well). I just wasn't prepared for the rant. I didn't know what to say, as what could I say? When I pointed out that, although I entirely sympathise and support any actions she wanted to take (he's going to be excluded from her lessons), there wasn't a lot I could actually do myself other than remind him he' s out of order, especially not at that moment, she said 'well, can't you take his phone or playstation away'. I'm not sure it's her place to give me parenting tips, just as I wouldn't give her teaching tips. And, in any case, he doesn't have a phone, and he only uses the PS4 sparingly at weekends. Seemed a strange thing to say. Maybe I said a strange thing. What was she wanting me to say??

I tear my hair out with this child. I do my best. Clearly he's a problem. I worry about him. What more can I do? He's very bright so, actually, he'll probably do ok academically anyway, although he'll fall short of his potential. And he'll wind up many of his teachers in the meantime. And alienate the other kids (he does have mates, but he's generally not very popular and probably seen as a bit of an idiot). He needs to learn to just shut up and put up with the teachers/lessons he doesn't like as he'll face the same in the rest of life. Do I just turn a blind eye and leave him to get on with it?

Need to hear from some other parents of disruptive kids.

It can't be all my fault as my DS1 is an angel at school. Teachers joke that they can't possibly be related ....

OP posts:
hormonesorDHbeingadick · 17/10/2019 15:04

I’ve seen this time and time again as a teacher. With your attitude it will end in one of two ways, he will end up being excluded or in year 11 you will turn around and blame the school for his poor predicted grade and/or ask the school for help with him behaviour at home.

You need to work with the head of year and how your child a united front or he will continue to interrupt others’ education and his own.

GreenTulips · 17/10/2019 15:05

Ring the teacher and ask to sit in one of her lessons with him, and tell him that’s what you’re going to do.
My son is similar and he’s dyslexic, once he had a diagnoses and got the right help he can now manage his learning so much better

It’s worth looking into - there are many levels of dyslexia not all linked to reading.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 17/10/2019 15:07

She was upset and "there wasn't a lot I could actually do myself" may be true but it wasn't diplomatic even if it was a cry of despair and not complacency at all. Instead it's better to say everything else: "I entirely support any actions she wanted to take" and "DH and I are supporting the Head of Year dealing with this" and "we take this very seriously" on a repeating loop til she calms down.

What more can I do? He's very bright so, actually, he'll probably do ok academically anyway, although he'll fall short of his potential. And he'll wind up many of his teachers in the meantime. And alienate the other kids (he does have mates, but he's generally not very popular and probably seen as a bit of an idiot).

The teacher's response may show that things are a bit worse than you or the school had realised til now. I know you said it's not that bad but if this has been going on forever then has he been checked out for the usual suspects - ADD, ASC, dyspraxia, dyslexia?

I certainly remember choosing to be ‘naughty’ on quite a few occasions.

But to the point of making yourself unpopular with the other kids? That's a step beyond.

I agree with pp that talking with the Head of Year may be a good next step - not to complain about the teacher, but to talk about what other steps you and the school could take.

malteasergeezer · 17/10/2019 15:08

"Do I just turn a blind eye and leave him to get on with it" ?

Well isn't that a fine attitude, OP?

No wonder the staff are in despair. Your whole "he just needs to put up with the teachers he doesn't like" stance is really shameful. Telling the teacher that there isn't anything you can do says a lot about you.

my2bundles · 17/10/2019 15:10

Support the school and followthrough punishments at home. It does have to stop, low level disruption is one of the worst because it's continuous and the teacher is there to teach 30 students not manage behaviour. It does unfairly negatively affect every other child in the class. Thankfully in my child's school they are removed immediately.

pikapikachu · 17/10/2019 15:11

Very few kids are 'naughty' by choice.

This is bollocks.
I am a mother of a child who behaved badly y11-13 and it was a culmination of low level bad behaviour being overlooked in primary and secondary. He's a product of a primary system that rewards the kids who are generally naughty and get rewards for one day of good behaviour while the consistently well behaved get overlooked. He told me at age 7 ish that there were too many kids per adult and as long as you weren't hurting someone or destroying things that the adults at school didn't care that much.
Ds had attendance of 65% in y12/13 and his school kept on giving last chances and never followed through on threats. He didn't disrupt lessons directly but would arrive late and not do work, assessments to the best of his ability.
He knew what he was doing (but accepts in hindsight that he played far too risky a hand) and I suspect that if I wasn't middle class, apologetic and he didn't achieve good grades that he would have been asked to leave.

OP - what changed my Ds was finding something that he was passionate about. It means his energy is directed positively and he can see results of his hard work. Having a part-time job also helped him mature and focus. He is like a different lad when it comes to work and it's given him focus for the future. I realise that 13 is too young for most jobs but if he's into sport (I'm making a massive assumption here as he's not a gamer) then they are often good places for first jobs/volunteering.

LagunaBubbles · 17/10/2019 15:12

I'm not sure it's her place to give me parenting tips

When your son is disrupting classes and other children's education to the extent he clearly is and seemingly nothing is changing then yes I think it is! Shame you won't listen as clearly you are very passive here and think the school should be managing him better. I despair of parents like you.

FuriousVexation · 17/10/2019 15:17

Oh god OP I empathise so much... with your DS.

I was that child at secondary school who was bored shitless 75% of the time.
Teacher: Do the exercise in page 76, write a letter to your penpal in La Rochelle
Me 5 mins later: Done
Teacher: There is 15 minutes left of the exercise

So I would either read ahead in the textbook, which led to being even more bored in future because we were going over shit I already knew. Or sitting at my desk doing my homework for that evening, and once that was done, writing scurrilous poems about my teachers.

The "one size fits all" school model does not suit every student, and especially does not suit students who have a lot of potential. It is designed to funnel a lot of taxpayer money into as cheap a system as possible, whilst killing the work ethic of our country [controversial] Children who are above or below the average (of anything) are poorly served. While children who naturally fall into the average could be encouraged to attain more but are rewarded by sticking to the middle.

Oneborneverydecade · 17/10/2019 15:24

Placemarking to read thoroughly

Sounds a lot like my DS tbh

Gimmechipschocolateandcake · 17/10/2019 15:26

Why not remove all privileges and take everything out of his room, make him earn it back. If he has a console / computer, phone dump it in the rubbish bin or donate it.

Gimmechipschocolateandcake · 17/10/2019 15:28

The teacher who called you ranting, can't she just refuse to teach him?Kick him out of the class?

GorkyMcPorky · 17/10/2019 15:33

As a teacher, can I just say thank you for your efforts in supporting the school and for doing what you can? I get sick of speaking to parents who try to make excuses or put the blame at my door. I sympathise. I think my DD is going to be a tricky teenager!

In the teacher's defence in this case, perhaps this is the last straw. Yesterday a pupil did something really gross to me and I'm glad their parents didn't pick up straight away as I'd had time to process it before I did speak to them. However sometimes you've only got a small window of opportunity to make the phone call.

Nyon · 17/10/2019 15:38

Please remember that the English teacher who called you ranting has about 29 other students in the class. I teach (same subject) and have similar children in some of my classes - what you don't seem to acknowledge is the frustration felt by the good children of the class, who roll their eyes when he misbehaves again as their lesson and learning is disrupted. These children are thrilled when your child is absent. You sound like you don't know how to challenge your son's behaviour - you need to figure it out because your child is fucking up the learning of others and that is grossly unfair.

GrumpyHoonMain · 17/10/2019 15:42

Honestly I can see why the teacher was giving you parenting tips. She could care less about your older son (whose good behaviour might be inspite of your parenting!). Her focus is on your 13 yo who is disruptive and has been so for a long time but you can’t seem to sort it out. From her perspective as there are presumably no SEN it’s your failure to put down boundaries. In this situation my own son get the PS and mobile removed permanently and also be grounded until the school said his behaviour improved.

Themutts · 17/10/2019 15:46

Just a thought- you asked the teacher what she wanted you to do. Now you are complaining that they suggested something.

Your kid Is disrupting the education of every other child in that room. I'm glad they called you.

ToffeeApple24 · 17/10/2019 15:51

Another teacher here.

This is absoultely NOT what teachers 'sign up for'

We kick kids like this out before they disrupt others' learning.

With your attitude, it's not going to improve. I constantly get parents asking me "what should i do?" it's your child! You tell me!

Teachers are paid to TEACH. Nothing else.

(Although we have taken on some caregiver responsibilities due to cuts but that's another story...)

bluebella4 · 17/10/2019 15:58

Can you talk to pastel care in the school? He sounds like he can't manage his emotions or impulses. I'd get him taking to a counsellor or something. I'm very sorry you are getting a hard time. He doesn't sound "bad" to me just a child you can't express himself in a healthy way.
Ofcourse others are gona judge that's just their ignorance.

noblegiraffe · 17/10/2019 16:03

Crikey, posters on this thread telling you to complain about the teacher.
‘DS’s English teacher phoned up, she was so cross because he had behaved so appallingly in her lesson’
‘OMG that’s terrible, what did you do?’
‘Complained about the teacher’

Teachers are used to dealing with low-level disruption and poor behaviour. For her actually to have been wound up by it to the point of a rant it must have been pretty dire.

It wasn’t a strange thing to suggest confiscating his phone or PS4, that’s fairly standard as a sanction for teenagers. Grounding is another option.

Whatever sanction you decide, you need a sharp focused conversation about this with your DS.

lazylinguist · 17/10/2019 16:17

Very few kids are 'naughty' by choice.

What utter bollocks. Lots of kids are naughty by choice. Yes, some children have issues and family situations which can cause bad behaviour, but there are plenty of kids who simply can't be arsed with lessons, enjoy acting up and getting the attention of their peers and don't really care about detentions or other consequences. I've taught several of them this afternoon in fact, alongside others who really don't do it on purpose.

noblegiraffe · 17/10/2019 16:19

Lots of kids are naughty because being naughty is more fun than cracking on with solving quadratic equations or listening to the teacher quietly.

What you need to do in that case is make being naughty less fun than cracking on with solving quadratic equations by judicious application of both a carrot and a stick.

RedPoppiesAndSpots · 17/10/2019 16:24

What are your son's carrots/sticks? You say he doesn't have a phone Why, just out of interest? Does he want one? Could he earn one with good behaviour?

You say you don't know why he is moody/disruptive/plays up. Sit him down and talk to him and explain that you both need to work out why he is doing it. Actually, no - go for a walk to discuss it, or a car journey (you are side to side rather than face to face so people often find it much easier to talk. Things you need to find out are are there particular triggers? Particular lessons? Only if fellow students are around. Is he playing the fool to keep a potential bully at bay?Is he playing up because he feels left out of all the social media crap that goes on in schools and is showing off to still be part of the crowd? Start to keep a diary, together.

Then if there are issues to solve, try and solve them. If he has to suck up certain stuff (He hates Mr Jones) then ask if he needs help learning how to suck it up.

And carrot and stick it.

He wants a phone/new bike/camera/fill in his hobby/passion - he can earn it.

He likes doing x/y/z - bad behaviour will mean he cannot.

Miltonj · 17/10/2019 16:29

Who keeps saying 'he'll get excluded eventually'?!
It's damned near impossible these days because it makes the school look bad to Ofsted. He could probably burn the place down and still get away with a few detentions!*

^^
I work in alternative provision and this is absolutely untrue. Many of the young people I work with have been permanently excluded. Granted some for one serious incident, but more often than not it's for consistent disruptive and disrespectful behaviour. OP, you need to nip this in the bud now, because whilst alternative provision can most definitely be a positive thing, fundamentally it will be much, much harder for your son to achieve his potential.... rather than one child with challenging behaviour in a classroom, there will be 15 or so.

HighNoon · 17/10/2019 16:37

I feel for you OP. I had one of these too, fortunately now grown up and left school, holding down a steady and responsible job.

Speak to the head of year or the senior teacher in charge of disciplinary policy. Ask that he or she is your conduit and contact for all incidents so that they can be tracked and collated, and that you are contacted by one person instead of many upset teachers. Yes teachers - I'm sure its horrible to be confronted by a dickhead in class, but its not much better to be yelled at about the horror you have spawned, when you are at work and entirely unable to address the situation in the moment.

I would definitely offer to go to lessons with your child. I wish I'd done that to see for myself and / or for the opportunity to call out child's shit there and then, instead of having the haranguing, and being left with the teacher's angst dumped my lap without opportunity to deal with at the earliest opportunity.

I was never entirely sure how or if additional punishment at home was successful. Definitely do not indulge or spoil, make life uncomfortable e.g. take the router to work with you, lock the xbox in your car's boot. But don't use punishments that hurt you too, e.g. threatening not to go away on holiday as a family when already pre-booked and paid for is unrealistic.

I gave teachers permission to punish as they saw fit. I wish they had had more old school hard bastards. What they did have was a slowly boiling pot of disciplinary points that mean one day your son will show up without a pen and that is the final 0.5 that sees him off-rolled for his GCSEs. Try and avoid that if possibly by working with one member of the senior staff.

If you can afford tutors get some in, to at least try and get 5 GSCEs passed so there are still choices available. And you will get some sense of control even if illusory. Even screwing up qualifications is not the life sentence it seems at the time.

Time is on your side. Your son will leave school and/or turn 18. They will find their choices limited by their previous behaviour and employers fortunately are more direct and clear cut than schools. No one wants to see your child suffer, but there is a tremendous relief still when it is not your call or deal anymore. There are some lessons that cannot be taught or explained, only experienced.

Whereas I loved my own time at my bog standard 1970s school, I now HATE schools as a result of this experience. They are a very specific type of environment that suits some animals but not others. The stupid pettiness of the right shoes, is not replicated in most workplaces where you can also talk shit every now and then, and also get up and go to the loo / cup of tea etc without putting your hand up.

In my time of trouble I found MaryZ's posts really helpful. She is not on Mumsnet much or at all? now, but she was the wise centre of the Teenagers board about 10 years ago. She has great advice on dealing with difficult teenagers and the judgement people will fling at you.

Finally please love more but care less about your son. School is a time limited relationship, but you and him are in for a longer haul, so as much as I didn't, be patient and calm in dealing with him, calling him out on his BEHAVIOUR and the impact it has on his classmates, teachers, you and himself. But refrain from name calling, labelling, "you always", "you'll never" The future is not ours to see.

I wish you well Flowers and it does end !

dottiedodah · 17/10/2019 16:51

Is there anything at all in his home life that you can think of to make him behave this way?The problem is at 13 /14 he has 15 16 etc to grow into and you dont want his behaviour to get worse ! Often children who do "act up " may be not all that happy .Can you not set aside time for you both ,say over half term to maybe go out somewhere together and talk about how hes feeling ?. Sometimes children get labelled as the "naughty " one and the "good " one and it reinforces that position ! Teachers have a hard time (3 of my friends are all teachers) and they are under pressure to perform and get the best results they can .