What to do with a wayward son at school

[deepflatflyer]

DS2 is nearly 13 / Year 8. He's very up and down / emotional / feisty / stroppy. Always been a bit like this but probably worse due to puberty. Disappointing behaviour at school but hard to know what's causing it (if anything). Can be good in some lessons, and downright disruptive and disrespectful in others. Seems to decide there are teachers / subjects he doesn't like and so makes little effort and can be rude/disruptive. Like this in primary school too but more noticeable now. Doesn't appear to be SO bad that he's ALWAYS in trouble, and it's annoying low-level disruption rather than fighting etc, but apparently he's overall one of the worst in his year (to put into perspective it's a school with very high levels of conduct/expectations and generally not too many problems of behaviour so he does stand out). Of course I talk to him at home every time there's an issue. I'm generally strict about screen time, homework, bedtimes etc. And I do withhold treats when he's in disgrace. I've had numerous discussions with his form teacher and head of year, both of whom are very nice, and I assure them that I fully support their attitude towards discipline and any action they decide to take.

I was a bit caught off guard earlier today at work to get an absolutely ranting English teacher on the phone. She'd clearly just come out of the lesson and was very upset and called me immediately. She had every reason to be cross as his behaviour had clearly been very much out of order. But I was at a loss as to what to say. Usually misdemeanours are dealt with by writing a note in his planner and being issued with a detention. She knows he's under the eye of his Head of Year (with my full support) so I think it might have been more appropriate to have logged things officially with him (which she will no doubt do as well). I just wasn't prepared for the rant. I didn't know what to say, as what could I say? When I pointed out that, although I entirely sympathise and support any actions she wanted to take (he's going to be excluded from her lessons), there wasn't a lot I could actually do myself other than remind him he' s out of order, especially not at that moment, she said 'well, can't you take his phone or playstation away'. I'm not sure it's her place to give me parenting tips, just as I wouldn't give her teaching tips. And, in any case, he doesn't have a phone, and he only uses the PS4 sparingly at weekends. Seemed a strange thing to say. Maybe I said a strange thing. What was she wanting me to say??

I tear my hair out with this child. I do my best. Clearly he's a problem. I worry about him. What more can I do? He's very bright so, actually, he'll probably do ok academically anyway, although he'll fall short of his potential. And he'll wind up many of his teachers in the meantime. And alienate the other kids (he does have mates, but he's generally not very popular and probably seen as a bit of an idiot). He needs to learn to just shut up and put up with the teachers/lessons he doesn't like as he'll face the same in the rest of life. Do I just turn a blind eye and leave him to get on with it?

Need to hear from some other parents of disruptive kids.

It can't be all my fault as my DS1 is an angel at school. Teachers joke that they can't possibly be related ....

Have you tried reward rather than punishment? If he can get through a week with no issues he can have extra playstation time, a month he can have a new game.

I was this kid in school (probably worse but there was underlying issues for my behaviour) I responded much better to reward than punishment, I was used to punishment I got punishment everyday but to actually hear someone say you've done really well today meant the world to me. I was never an angel but a balance of reward and punishment worked better than constantly being told what I was doing wasn't good enough.

“ It can't be all my fault as my DS1 is an angel at school. Teachers joke that they can't possibly be related ....”
How is the relationship between the boys? Does DS2 hear this a lot?

Could you bring him to the dr for an all check up.Make sure his hearing,eyesight is up to scratch.

He may open up to the Dr more than to you.

Your son is disrupting the education of other children in his class. You say that he is bright and will probably do well academically, but what about the education of those children who may not be quite as bright and need the teaching? Seriously, you are his parent, it is your responsibility to ensure his good behaviour, rather than blaming the teacher. Put yourself in her place - why should she have to put up with your disruptive son? I agree with the poster who suggested removing his belongings. And not just for the day. He should also apologize to his teacher.

What sanction do you use when he misbehaves at home, eg when he does something really selfish and inconsiderate? Apply that here. You haven't shared any details about what he did in the English lesson, so I'll work in the assumption it was worse-than-usual so-called low-level disruption.

He's really upset/annoyed his teacher, a person whose entire job is to help him learn. It also sounds like he prevented 30 other young people from being able to learn anything this morning.

A letter of apology to the teacher might be a good start.

What is it that he dislikes about certain subjects/teachers? Is it because he finds those subjects hard. Or simply has zero interest in them (no one is going to ever find everything interesting)?
I think that is a good starting point to find out why he is behaving the way he is.
I never understand the whole 'take away his playstation' type comments. I personally don't see the link between something a person does in their free time vs acting out because you simply don't understand algebra or really aren't very good or interested in dance (or whatever). Punishment isn't always the answer. Talking about what is going on in his head is more important.

I was really glad my brother went to grammar school, because at primary the "you're nothing like your brother" comments were most definitely said with an air of disappointment. Even down to walking FFS (trip to the Yorkshire Dales).

What was she wanting me to say??

It's fairly obvious that she wanted you to confirm that you found his behaviour completely unacceptable and would be talking to him very firmly and imposing sanctions in addition to anything the school might do. Presumably there are other punishments you could use other than taking the play station away, e.g. grounding him and stopping pocket money?

Would it be an idea to ask for a meeting with the Head of Year, form teacher and anyone else involved to talk about strategies to deal with all this. It may be there is an element of boredom in this, so can the school do more to stretch him?

@Batcrazy101 *this is what teachers have signed up for&

I think you'll find most of them haven't. What sort of an attitude is that?

There have been a lot of threads recently about the same thing, teen lads being disruptive at school and in all the instances I've read, they were quite disruptive in primary school too but both parents and teachers are adamant that nothing works to improve their behaviour.

Behaviour is communication, ALL behaviour is communication.

If a child has been 'badly behaved' through primary and now into secondary, is indifferent to sanctions and doesn't improve their behaviour after detentions at school and tech being confiscated at home, surely both school and the parents need to start looking for other causes? Surely investigating the cause of their disruptive behaviour should be a priority. Very few kids are 'naughty' by choice.

Many kids use 'bad' behaviour to deflect attention away from the fact they are struggling to do the actual work they've been set, to deflect from admitting they didn't understand all of it, to deflect from being unsure about all or part of it.

Have a look at the methods used here OP and see if they can bring any change to your son's situation. www.livesinthebalance.org/

My dp is one of 4 all close in age. 1 and 3 well behaved, academic, went to University. 2 and 4- not so much. 2 and 4 clearly remember the “you’re so different from your brother/sister” comments. 1 and 3 were completely unaware.

another thought is that quite a few of his class will really, really hate him. And if this goes on into the working world ALL his colleagues will really hate him.

I'm sure that's not the future you want for your son. Please work with the school to deal with this. And good luck because it can't be easy.

Before you take any action, sit down with your son and find out exactly what happened. Please do that, it's only fair. Other than that, what I asked in my previous post.
& for you. Phew!

I'm not sure it's her place to give me parenting tips

Sorry, but it sounds as if you could do with a few.

All the people giving advice about talking to him, removing appliances etc. have probably had no experience of having a really stroppy child who is an absolute terror at school. They very often won't listen to parents and just carry on in their own sweet way. The only thing we could do with our eldest was really to sit it out and wait for things to change, which they did once he got into the VIth Form where he didn't do much work, but became a much nicer person. He didn't need A Levels for his chosen career, but had to be 18. He has done very well in said career, and took early retirement with an excellent pension.

I feel for you as I have been there with my now 27 year old son who was dreadful at school and didn't work and his HOY was often in contact. If it makes you feel any better he left to go to 6th form college then "got it" and studied Law at Leeds Uni and is now doing very well and has bought his first property. so they can and do change. He was also addicted to video games at that time. He too has an older brother who was/is very clever and successful and DS2 always felt he could never do as well so didn't bother trying. Your DS2 could feel similar. they can be so awful at that age and it is difficult to get inside their heads. difficult to explain to anyone who hasn't been through it. On the other side of it - I work at a school - I don't think the teacher was being very professional by ringing you direct like that. If your son is being a problem then there will be/should be a lot of discussion about him and support for him in school. You need one point of contact but you do need to keep in close contact with the school and follow up on their suggestions otherwise DS could think he is "getting away" with his bad behaviour.

Teacher should not have shouted at you. However, you need to find out the root cause of what is wrong with him. Obviously something because your other child is not like that! No point shouting at him or removing privileges until you know why he behaves like he does. There could be an underlying issue. Good luck

Very few kids are 'naughty' by choice.

I wonder if people who spout this nonsense have no recollection of being a child themselves. I certainly remember choosing to be ‘naughty’ on quite a few occasions. Some children are not ‘naughty’ by choice due to SN - but most are very definitely making choices. They may struggle with their behaviour/selfish impulses more than others for all kinds reasons, but it’s very much a choice nonetheless - and teaching them that they are in control of their choices and that they need to take responsibility for these choices is essential.

Ds1 always used to get detentions from the Art Teacher. Most people loved art..I certainly did as a pupil although I was never particularily good at it. He couldn't do art because he was dyspraxic and couldn't follow her detailed instructions. Therefore he used to mess around and disrupt the lesson. We finally found out he was dyspraxic at 13.
The fact that the English teacher doesn't get on with him is a bit of a red flag. Again, English is one of those subjects that most students enjoy.

Could he be dyslexic, and this is manifesting itself as don't care-ish, cannot be bothered, not quite sure what is going on, "attitude"?
I don't think disciplining him is particularily going to help, whereas putting some sort of structured goals in might. If he finds the lessons boring might that because he finds them confusing, or the only way he has to shine is to show off and be class clown?
Deep down, Ds1 longed to impress everyone and be popular but he felt a bit of failure at everything (except Music which he behaved beautifully in). Whenever he was encouraged he did much better, but he also needed clear instructions and goals and to be engaged step by step. General woffle about behaving better or working harder didn't make much difference. We did all that too and the telling off, btw I would say he just developed a thicker and thicker skin. But some teachers managed to inspire him and he wanted to behave better and do better work for them.

Call a meeting with the head and your son to discuss everything and set out a plan. Ask for school for behavior policy, exclusion policy in case you need it but also for you son to hear the consequences of his actions.
I mean this with respect. At this age the teacher is there to teach, not maintain order, if he can’t sit and behave at the least he needs to feel the consequences. Actions have consequences, you know your son what does he value? What would be a suitable carrot. It it my opinion that carrots work better than sticks,

You're his parent. Parent him.

I don't mean that in a bad way but you seem to think that his behaviour at school is not your problem. But it must definitely is. Start issuing sanctions for him at home. Take away his PS4, limit screen time, ground him, stop doing anything he enjoys, start making him do jobs around the house as a punishment but most of all, REWARD him when he is good too. So if you get a good report from the school for behaviour let him have his PS4, or a little bit of screen time etc.

Parent your child.

Suggest looking at other schools 'he might be happier at' - that should put the wind up him, can you visit unis or careers person so he might see a reason for sitting in a boring English class ie he needs a gcse to study whatever at wherever in the future.
Look at leaving school to apply for an apprenticeship - things to make him see a future he has chosen.
Keep him out of English and pay a tutor instead say on Sat nights. I got a chemistry tutor for DS, he suddenly decided to work at school rather than sit through one to one once a week with tutor.
Make the options less pleasant. Help him plan a future. Visit unis.

@Fatshedra He's 12. I doubtful he'd be interested in touring universities or looking for apprenticeships.

Plus some kids just arent school orientated.They dislike it so much.

Would an apprenticeship be a better option.

You could have been describing my son,i spend more time up at the school than he did.He does have some slight LD.Has he been assessed for anything.

My son now has a good job,a gf ,dc and a flat.

But i would call a meeting with everyone involved and look at your options.Something has to be done.Its not fair on the other students.

Ross Greene has a different approach to 'bad' behaviour, called Collaborative & Proactive Solutions (CPS)

The model is based on the premise that challenging behavior occurs when the expectations being placed on a kid exceed the kid’s capacity to respond adaptively, and that some kids are lacking the skills to handle certain demands and expectations. So the emphasis of the model isn’t on kids' challenging behavior, which is – whether it’s whining, pouting, sulking, withdrawing, crying, screaming, swearing, hitting, spitting, biting, or worse – just the manner in which they are expressing the fact that there are expectations they’re having difficulty meeting. Nor does the model focus on psychiatric diagnoses, which are simply categories of challenging behaviors. Rather, the model focuses on identifying the skills the kid is lacking and the expectations he or she is having difficulty meeting (in the CPS model, those unmet expectations are referred to as unsolved problems). Then the goal is to help kids and caregivers solve those problems rather than trying to modify kids' behavior through application of rewards and punishments.
www.livesinthebalance.org/about-cps