private school costs - can average earners afford these?

[coffeeforone]

On the back of a recent thread taking about very cheap private school it got me wondering. If we pay £1500 per month for nursery fees, as most parents in the area do, can we afford private school long term? The fees mentioned in the thread were so much less than this.

Is it an option to consider if we don't get offered our top 3 choices of state primary and are not happy with the school the LA offer?

Currently looking at schools for DS next September, I don't think any of the parents at DS's nursery are considering private education, and neither are us? But I'm now thinking why not? I have done no research at all on independent school costs, I just thought they were well out of the reach of average earners, maybe I'm wrong?

rattus

Haven't a clue what bollocks you are spouting, have a look at the fees yourself. Do you have google?
So, because people offer opinions, others can't offer facts. Right,

user

Of course not, but some people do prioritise private education and it's unfair to say that it's not available to the average.
I know one family who lived on a boat on the canal in order to afford it. As I said I was neither saying it was right or wrong, just different people prioritise different things.

@Drabarni don't be ridiculous. i challenge you to find a single published source arguing that UK private schooling is becoming more affordable. in 5 minutes i could easily find a dozen arguing the opposite.

Sorry the factory/ warehouse wage question, couples earning 40k plus each if doing shifts and have FLT and other relevant qualifications.
I know as these are some of my family and friends, although their kids are grown ups now.

lunches are very expenive compared to state schools, uiniform cant be got from ASDA/m&S and so will easily into ~£500-1000 a year per child, school trips, extra-curricaular clubs etc are all more expensive than state equivilants

Why are you stating these as facts? They’re really not and don’t apply to every school.

For DD’s prep - lunches included, an excellent New to You system so we in fact probably paid LESS than the average state school uniform, we paid nowhere near £500 for uniform/equipment for the entire 9 years DD was there, school trips - about on a par with local state primaries, extra-curricular activities, included in the fees.

Absolutely some private schools can be expensive, the ONLY way to know for sure is to visit the school you’re interested in and find out!

Here's just one. I don't need to read any publication, I just google the schools. I don't always believe what I read, do my own research.

www.kingsmac.co.uk/fees Do you want me to find more as there are plenty?

Our private school of choice is £8k a year for reception, going up to £13.5k for the last couple of years of senior school. You get a 10% discount for a second child, plus a 5% discount if you pay upfront for the year. So costs for one child could start at £633/month, going up to £1069/month for A levels.

Our local primary is very good though, so we would plan to try for the local primary as our preference.

I work in a very good academically selective independent school. the fees are currently around £14k a year so obviously not cheap but not only for the elite by any means. The majority of parents are professionals - doctors, lawyers, other teachers but there are plenty of parents in "ordinary" jobs. We also have a number of students on full bursaries which are on offer for children from lower income families. School meals are excellent and are about £200 a term. Extra curricular activities are free. Uniform items can be bought from M & S and John Lewis apart from the specific school logo stuff. School trips vary in cost from very reasonable art trips to Europe to expensive World Challenge type trips but you don't have to go to any of them. Theatre trips and the like are subsidised. Parents only care about whether their children are getting a good education and that they will - hopefully - get into the Uni of their choice. Students don't care where there friends live or the size of their house or flat. Honestly - it really is a myth. Anyone considering private education should get themselves along to the open days and find out more about it.

I'm so glad for the last two posts, I was beginning to feel I was going mad.
We are the other end of scale, very poor. We still have to pay some fees due to our income, and rightly so.
We have one old car and if we had two to keep on the road and had a holiday and other such luxuries we couldn't afford it either.
So, maybe depending on your lifestyle choice you can't afford the fees where you live, but that's choice not income.

I'm not suggesting families should prioritise private education by any means, but to say the average income can't afford it, is wrong.

@BrieAndChilli that’s not true for most private schools that I have knowledge of. Most activities are included or charged at cost (which is usually quite low because the school already has buses, specialist teachers etc). Meals are usually included in the price. I’m not sure about after school care at other schools but at ours it’s been extremely cheap IB preprep. In prep the day is extended so you are unlikely to need it. School uniform (including shoes, tennis rackets etc) has cost us £200 maximum and we tend to over buy in the expectation of lost/ruined stuff. If you buy in the second hand sake it’s far far cheaper. Overall there have been very few additional costs and they have all been quite low.

If you can currently afford £1500pcm per child for nursery then yes you can afford private school, most will be less than this (the one we are looking at is about £1350pcm) - some schools have lunch included with fees - so long as at least one of the parents is working in an industry where you can expect at least inflation-based pay rises every year. Fees will go up by about 4% a year or so and if you are both public sector employees who keep having pay rises capped at 1% you may find the affordability changes for the worse. But NB presumably you are affording that £1500pcm with the tax-free childcare scheme, and that won't apply to school fees so you may need to allow for that.

I think saying its priorities is offensive tbh.

I will not do cut price indie as i do not think it's worth it.

Our school has everything included inc care from 7 -9. Only extras are music lessons and drama lessons.

But it costs about 23k a year. That's out of taxed income. Not in the slightest bit affordable by driving an old car.

there are a number of income/wealth categories when it comes to private school fees:

(a) fees are so affordable so as not to be a noticable expense [seriously loaded people];
(b) fees are affordable, a noticable expense but don't require meaningful economising;
(c) fees are borderline affordable; but only with economising;
(d) fees are borderline unaffordable; even with economising;
(e) fees are manifestly affordable.

almost anyone who's on anything like an average income sits squarely in category (e).

Our private prep school started at 3.7k per term then rose to 5.7k per term in the later years, so that's ~£1400 a month.

This included all food and wraparound care (could drop at 7.30am and pick up as late as 6pm if needed), however school terms were much shorter so we also had to arrange care, often in weeks when no holiday clubs were running as local demand wasn't high enough.

Funnily enough uniform was quite cheap as there was a well stocked and run uniform shop. There was no requirement to have iPads/laptop etc at home as school so well kitted out.

I did send DD on a ski trip last year in year 6 (£2000 + spending) but that was optional...many didn't go. I can't remember any other trips that were even overnight. Many were included in fees and a few were £30 here or there. We were shaken down for donations for swimming pool renovations or this/that/the other quite often but you can always refuse. School events tended to be expensive - .e.g. parents summer ball approx £120 a ticket but we never went.

The only downfalls I can see for a 'normal' income family are:

1 - Nursery fees usually offset - at least - by salary. So if I lost my job, I'd pull DD out of nursery, and we'd only be a few hundred quid down a month. At private school if I lose my job you usually can't pull them our for at least a term (and obvs that'd be ridiculous upheaval and you'd need another place) so you're down thousands a month.
2 - Usually people have kiddos at least 2 years apart so you're not paying two sets of fees for years. Nursery is temporary whereas schools are for 14 years and only get more expensive.

I will not do cut price indie as i do not think it's worth it

How do you mean "cut price"?

Fees vary dramatically from one area of the country to the next.

To simply discount a school because you don't believe x fees can mean a good education is a simplistic view and one that could see people missing out on a very good education.

I would say no. And also do think about how many years commitment this will be!
We started private school through going to the nursery with an aim to moving closer to a good state school. House sale fell through so stayed on at the school. Recently moved to another private school and fees including lunch are c £16k pa for primary. This is for 8:30-4:30 additional fees apply for wrap around. We started on income of £8k net pm with a large whack of savings in the bank for rainy days and now I've actually had to drop my income as no childcare so was easier for me to go pt so now feeling the pinch and having to make big sacrifices to commit to fees. (Well by sacrifice I mean one shit holiday in Spain instead of our previous long haul escapades but still)

On top of that amount are expensive uniforms that change every few years although you can get second hand but not even that cheap because new is so expensive.
School trips
Summer/winter ball although can forego these but be a bit sad to not join in at all.
Various fairs you have to show your face at least once

Then have you incorporated holiday childcare cost. We get around 21 weeks holidays a year. That's another reason I had to go pt.
very tricky. Don't want dc in holiday clubs every single holiday and even if I did it would cost a fortune.

So basically I'm saying no you probably can't afford it. And it's not worth struggling for tbh.

I think saying its priorities is offensive tbh

Eh? Some people prioritise private schools, others don't. How is that offensive.
It's not like suggesting prioritising something is better than not.
I don't prioritise a big wage, big house, two top of the range cars, holidays, expensive luxury goods and services. It doesn't make me any worse or better than somebody who does.

Presumably the average annual school fees are getting close to 50% of the average annual UK salary? At that ratio, I don’t think it’s a case of prioritising. I think average earners probably can’t afford it.

Whether or not anyone can afford these fees comes to down to income levels, actual fees and choice/spending priorities. School fees can be up to 35k+ per anuum at senior school level.

I looked at sending my 3 and costed it out. The reality for us was - none of schools I viewed delivered sufficient benefit for the cost. The school has to be the right one for the child. Private does not always equal a higher standard of education. Not all private schools have high academic standards, not all have good sports facilities, not all offer good music tuition.

Some are "hot houses" , which will suit one child brilliantly and will destroy the confidence of another. Some provide a good all round education and are less selective. It's a question of finding the right school for the child.
For us - we were looking at about £15k school fees per child plus uniform and extras - say 55-60k in total. That's 60k of take home pay - so 90k gross. That's a decent full time wage. Even if I only need 50k - I need to earn 75k to cover that before any household expenses.
That's before any out of school activities - drama, sport, music. Some of these will be offered at school possibly at a cost. Many of my friends' children will do out of school sport (as well as playing for school) because it's a higher standard than at school. So overall no real savings on activities.
One of the things that really swung it for me was positive discrimination from universities. I understand some intend to have a quota system to reflect the proportion of children in state education vs in private education. Given about 93% are in the state system, that would leave a lot of public school kids fighting out for that 7% of spaces.
So to answer OP - go round a few schools, consider whether any fit your child. Probably harder to judge a primary. Have cynical head on, realise the school will be in sales mode!
If you think its better than the local primary, or school you will likely get allocated, then really go away and do your sums. Factor in both children.
Based on your current expenditure at nursery it definitely seems doable. Just make sure your annual budget includes all things like holiday, Christmas, car insurance and upgrades, home improvements/repairs and replacements etc.

Presumably the average annual school fees are getting close to 50% of the average annual UK salary? At that ratio, I don’t think it’s a case of prioritising. I think average earners probably can’t afford it.
I was going to say something similar.

But there's a weird demographic on MN of people who evidently from their posts and replies earn substantially more than average, but insist that it's just enough to get by (eg. The how will we afford to start a family on a household income of £60,000 threads)

I don't think private education is affordable for most people.

"Eh? Some people prioritise private schools, others don't. How is that offensive."

You don't understand why saying the reason that people can#t afford private education is because they don't prioritise it is offensive?

Some people might have children desperately struggling with the state system and would love to go private but even if they ate baked beans every night and had no central heating they couldn't 'prioritise' 20k a year.

But there's a weird demographic on MN of people who evidently from their posts and replies earn substantially more than average also people who can 'easily' afford private education but choose state for idealogical reasons.

I think the average wage is about 29k. Most private schools i have seen are at least 1k per month rising with each year, plus lunches, uniform, trips and extras. Thats a big chunk of income.

One of the things that really swung it for me was positive discrimination from universities. I understand some intend to have a quota system to reflect the proportion of children in state education vs in private education. Where have you read this?

@coffeeforone if its borderline whether you can afford it, consider the "state till eight" path that a lot of people choose. The first few years of school aren't too critical, so go for your best option for a local state primary for years R,1,2&3 and put every penny you can into savings in those 4 years. That then becomes a significant fraction of the fees for the next 10 years, making it a little easier.