private school costs - can average earners afford these?

[coffeeforone]

On the back of a recent thread taking about very cheap private school it got me wondering. If we pay £1500 per month for nursery fees, as most parents in the area do, can we afford private school long term? The fees mentioned in the thread were so much less than this.

Is it an option to consider if we don't get offered our top 3 choices of state primary and are not happy with the school the LA offer?

Currently looking at schools for DS next September, I don't think any of the parents at DS's nursery are considering private education, and neither are us? But I'm now thinking why not? I have done no research at all on independent school costs, I just thought they were well out of the reach of average earners, maybe I'm wrong?

of course not if we're talking about a family who's stricly average in all repects, but it is of course possible in a few cases, namely by "average earner" we mean one or more of the following:

(a) both parents are FT average earners, childcare's provided for free e.g. by grandparents;
(b) mortgage is zero/very low for whatever reason;
(c) the family has high savings for whatever reason;
(d) we're talking about a small [ideally 1 kid, maybe say 2 with a big age gap] number of kids;
(e) fees are very low for whatever reason, usually involving relatively large class sizes [e.g. there are some v cheap jewish private schools in n london];
(d) partial or full scholarships are invlolved

'who's got the biggest holiday home' competition with other parents.' this is the reason why people who could possibly afford private education or could get a bursary don't do it. It's sad really because it's a complete myth.

I think if you are able to get DC into a good Primary the surely the money you could save could be invested for their future ? Maybe for a Private Secondary School? or Uni fees?. Most primary schools are good .

Average wage for the whole of the UK for the last reported quarter in 2019 was just under 26500 , on the basic tax code with minimum pension deductions take home monthly pay would be £1700pcm x2 =£3400 per month.

I really don't see how anyone could pay for private school for one or two children long term on truly average wages.

'who's got the biggest holiday home' competition with other parents.' this is the reason why people who could possibly afford private education or could get a bursary don't do it. It's sad really because it's a complete myth.

My niece and nephew go to private school. Whilst they are not having biggest holiday home competitions, they have a woeful lack of understanding about how vast swathes of the population live - as evidenced by their "everyone has ... everyone does ..." type conversations (not about things like their own horse or holiday home or a swimming pool in the garden, but things like having their own bedroom, a holiday every year, eating out once a month ... but it's outside of their comprehension that not everyone lives this lifestyle). I doubt they are particularly unusual.

Yes plenty of teens find it hard to be empathetic. If you can prove to me that all state school students are completely unaware of money, brands and expensive cars etc then you might have a point.

they have a woeful lack of understanding about how vast swathes of the population live - as evidenced by their "everyone has ... everyone does ..." type conversations (not about things like their own horse or holiday home or a swimming pool in the garden, but things like having their own bedroom, a holiday every year, eating out once a month ... but it's outside of their comprehension that not everyone lives this lifestyle). I doubt they are particularly unusual.

I'm sure that you're right but I think that's also true of many state school pupils in affluent areas.

Private school is more accessible than ever. Working class could never afford them in the past, it was for the elite.
Now a couple working in warehouses and factories can afford them, whether they choose to spend their money in this way is another thing.
My ds1 is looking into it for future but child only a baby at present. He's a financial advisor and dil works in Asda.
It's just something they feel they want to prioritise.

I didn’t just look at what I was paying out NOW at nursery.

1. Tax relief - I had childcare vouchers, so actually I wasn’t finding £1500

1. Sacrifices/priorities - it’s different deciding no fancy holidays for just a few years when kids are too young to care anyway vs no fancy holidays in their childhood at all

1. Risk of job loss - I could afford it, but there’s no family money to support it, just my salary. I chose not to take the risk (and pressure) that if I lose my job, I have to pull my child out of a school where they are settled and with friends

@Drabarni

What are you talking about?

Do you honestly think a couple both working in a factory can afford to spend £30K a year in fees if they had two children?

The school at work at the fees start at £15k per year and rise to £18k by Year 5 - Senior School is in excess of £20k per year.

And the fees go up every year too.

Merryoldgoat I was baffled by that post too. Factory work must be very well paid nowadays...

Drabarni I believe private school has never been less accessible due to the rises in school fees that outstrip wages and inflation. Do warehouse workers really have a spare £25000 per annum to put one child through a year of secondary school?

3. Risk of job loss - I could afford it, but there’s no family money to support it, just my salary. I chose not to take the risk (and pressure) that if I lose my job, I have to pull my child out of a school where they are settled and with friends

This is actually really important. I see many parents in this position and they apply for financial assistance, which we are happy to give, but the reality is that long-term it's probably not something they can prioritise any more.

And it will become even more inaccessible as schools have to pay the increase pension contributions required - that will be passed on in fees. That represents £200k a year to the school I work at.

There is literally zero change it's becoming more accessible.

@Drabarni school fees have never been less affordable in relation to income. They have risen at double the rate of inflation for the past twenty-five years.

Chance, not change.

Working class could never afford them in the past, it was for the elite.

This is also half-bollocks.

Working class parents would probably not have been able to afford them in the past, but I had lots of friends who were privately educated with parents with middle-class type jobs - accountants, doctors etc. Definitely not 'elite'

Those same friends now earn the equivalent of what their parents did and are educating at state schools because of affordability.

Sue & Merryoldgoat

The ones that go to private school, well obviously otherwise they wouldn't be there.
Their parents just prioritised school fees over other things. Not judging whether right or wrong. Recently there have been more European Roma taking the option, this is brilliant and shows how if you prioritise things important to you, then things otherwise not available to others is available to you.
My own dd goes to a private school, but it's different type and the gov pay, because we can't afford it.

Most people don’t expect to suck up the cost of nursery fees for more than 3 years when they become entitled to free hours.

Most people are foregoing other things to be able to pay unavoidable nursery fees. Presumably you’re not saving much/paying much into your pension.

The prices do go up and time goes on. Even then if you limit the number of children you have then it’s doable for most two earned families until bursaries etc start to kick in. There was a thread on here the other day by a woman who pays more in childcare at a state school than we do for fees plus childcare.

I think 25k is a lot, it's more like 9k - 13k up here, obviously more if boarding.
My dd school is about 33k now, boarding.

@Drabarni - this forum is about opinons, meaning that few things in it are objectively right or wrong... but your first sentence is a good example of something in the latter category, it's just complete codswallop.

We're in a similar boat. We can afford to put one through private school paying less than we currently pay in nanny fees. The question, though, is if we had another would we be able to afford both, particularly considering that the fees increase as they age? It'd be dependent on variables such as how pay rises compare to fee rises, I'm finding it very difficult to predict.

its not just a direct comparison against nursery fees and school fees.
As previous people have said - lunches are very expenive compared to state schools, uiniform cant be got from ASDA/m&S and so will easily into ~£500-1000 a year per child, school trips, extra-curricaular clubs etc are all more expensive than state equivilants.

Then there is the fact that children get more expensive as they get older. DD age 11 is the same shoe size as me and so can no longer buy kids shoes so we pay adult prices for her, food costs go up loads - i remember when 1 can of tuna would feed the 3 of them in a meal, now i need 2-3 tins!
plus bills go up every year etc etc.
plus cost of holidays goes up once you cant cram a travel cot into a hotel room or sit a child on your lap in the plane etc

all things to consider as they creep up on you and you will be wondering where your money goes!

Drabarni It isn’t really a matter of priorities for most people. Once basic living costs have gone out, the vast majority of people don’t have nearly enough left. Do you live somewhere where private school fees are exceptionally cheap? Because the numbers don’t add up.

Eg fees for two children at my local prep would be 32,790. To pay for fees alone you would need two people on 19k which is probably more than a lot of factory workers get. Obviously people need to live and eat as well and you’ve used up your tax free allowance in that £19k and there was no pension in that so you are looking at a far higher salary to make private schooling viable.