private school costs - can average earners afford these?

[coffeeforone]

On the back of a recent thread taking about very cheap private school it got me wondering. If we pay £1500 per month for nursery fees, as most parents in the area do, can we afford private school long term? The fees mentioned in the thread were so much less than this.

Is it an option to consider if we don't get offered our top 3 choices of state primary and are not happy with the school the LA offer?

Currently looking at schools for DS next September, I don't think any of the parents at DS's nursery are considering private education, and neither are us? But I'm now thinking why not? I have done no research at all on independent school costs, I just thought they were well out of the reach of average earners, maybe I'm wrong?

Sorry the factory/ warehouse wage question, couples earning 40k plus each if doing shifts and have FLT and other relevant qualifications.

You're in cloud cuckoo if you think the average warehouse worker earns £40K!

My parents economised massively to send me to independent school for secondary.

I’m grateful for the privilege, obviously. I don’t know how well I would have done at the local comprehensive school.

But I have to say it did make for very unhappy teenage years. Firstly, because my parents were always anxious about money as a result. Secondly, because it’s not much fun being the poor kid among a load of rich kids. And thirdly, because having my educational outcomes tied up with my parents’ money worries was really stressful for everyone concerned, and I felt it put far too much pressure on me. Every grade was scrutinised, every teenage misdemeanour blown way out of proportion - my parents wanted to see ‘value for money’.

Just offering an alternative perspective. Just because something can be done doesn’t necessarily mean it should be done!

DD's daily nursery fees was dearer than her daily school fees. However she didn't go to nursery full time so that did reduce those costs.

skiing trips, extra curriculars, laptops, iPads, uniforms

Ski trips and expensive trips are never compulsory. Skiing, for example, only a small number per year group went - dd never did, she doesn't do the cold! Other trips were no more frequent or more expensive that the state schools.
Extra curricular again were no dearer than the state options, and were optional.
No iPads or laptops required by primary or secondary, though I would say that most secondary school students benefit from having computer access at home for most days.
Primary school uniform was pretty dear but there was a fantastic second hand shop which everyone used - even those with tons of money! Secondary wasn't really different costs to many local schools.

Most decent Indy secondaries are 9-14k a term

Maybe in some areas but most definitely not here - South Yorkshire. No where near that at all! Was around £4k a term, and her secondary wasn't really much difference in price to her primary.

There really wasn't any competitiveness over houses, horses, holiday homes, etc at DD' schools and they did have children from a range of backgrounds. You only knew if a child was on a nursery if they told you, especially as there were a range of scholarships and nurseries for all, and not just linked to finances.

We only have one child so obviously affordability is a little easier when that's the case.

You get a lot of myths about what life is really like in private schools, but much of it is a very different experience to what we ever had in DD's 12 years at schools. She is in a state school for sixth form, because of subject choices mainly, and tbh not much has changed - well apart from me and her dad not forking out the fees every month!

I will not do cut price indie as i do not think it's worth it.

Ever thought that what you consider 'cut price' is just because it is cheaper in different parts of the UK?
More expensive doesn't necessarily mean the best - a quick look at the league tables can tell you this.
However, once you move up north you'll find some very good schools at much better prices!

Trewser - some Guardian article probably. Testing my memory. My old Uni is finally up to 68% state compared to what might have been 30% if that in the 90s. Speaking to an admissions tutor recently I understand they are more "flexible" with state educated

You'd have to be earning way over average to afford even £12k a year pet child - for an average earner that would be half their wages, before anything else.

Private school terms are very short, remember- you’ll still need loads of childcare.

“ Speaking to an admissions tutor recently I understand they are more "flexible" with state educated”

Could you say some more about this? It sounds very dodgy indeed. Unless you are talking about contextual offers, which are about disadvantage, not just state education.

We are both teacher and have two in private. We have worked out the average cost per year for the next however many years and that is put aside every year so we will effectively pay the same every year TIL it’s done. We are both teachers we do extra exam marking so earn just under 50k each. We have a low ish mortgage of 600 a month. No travel costs as the school and our works are less than 3 miles from where we live. Things are a little tight sometimes and obviously I can’t predict the future but we will manage it.

My parents help out a little they probs pay twenty percent of fees. Everyone goes second hand for uniform. We live in the north which makes a difference to living costs I think and school costs.

Our reasons were the poor wrap around care for our local. We would be spending 450 a month on a childminder per child and fees were 650 a month initially for pre prep.

In terms of lifestyle not many luxuries, we could do with new carpets but they can wait. Few new clothes. 1 holiday a year under two grand.

Trewser

Of course some people don't earn enough, we don't earn anywhere near the amount, but we are one min wage household.
Anyone who can afford the fees can choose a lifestyle which enables them to do so. They don't have to of course, but the choice is there, as I referred to my own family. Dil works at Asda min wage and ds1 is a financial advisor. They don't earn a fortune but are considering prioritising a private education for their dd. They may choose not to have any more children to afford it.
So yes, people who can afford the fees can decide to or not.
I'm struggling to see how you can't see this.
Nobody is saying everyone can afford it, but like I keep saying many can but don't want to and that's fine.

Private school terms are very short

Yes, shorter than state normally. Round here - 3 weeks extra. A week extra at Christmas, Easter and summer.

@Its2oclockinthemorning has summed it all up really, they have 2 x double the average income and 20% of the fees are paid by their parents, living in the north - where it is a lot cheaper than London, with no travel costs and admit it is tight.

Our school had fantastic holiday provision and really reasonably priced too.

Yes, much shorter terms, ours are as above but also two weeks half term to allow for flights for international students, of which there are many. This is first week of half term and go back 27th to start on the 28th.

It depends on the school. DD’s fees are £7650 per annum which works out at £212 per week but that includes wrap around care which around here at a state school would cost about £75-100 per week so for me it’s doable. DD’s school is lovely and most parents are fairly ‘normal’ in terms of income although there are a few well off ones. Schools and fees vary so much though it’s impossible to say whether it would be worthwhile for you. I’d go to a few school open days and see what you think first, you may find that in your area the state schools are just as good and that it’s not worth paying the extra

How is it that someone on £200k thinks they cannot afford private schooling?
Even with a large mortgage and money set aside for holidays I cannot understand the Maths on that one...

It's relative though like anything else.
I too am in the north and to me £600 mortgage is high and 3x ours.
The only way to do it is look at the fees and your lifestyle, if it's that important to you would you change your lifestyle, job, area, non essential outgoings.
Sometimes it takes this if it's what you want.
Irrespective of your outgoings if you don't earn the fees, averaging from 8k to 35k annually, then no amount of cutting back will help, unless you get a bit bursary.
If you can afford childcare of £1k upwards per month then private school should be manageable.

I'd rather have them educated in outstanding state provision where they mix with fully functioning children and pay for the odd ski trip than scrimp and save and deny those lovely opportunities.

“I'd rather have them educated in outstanding state provision where they mix with fully functioning children“

Jesus Christ reverse snobbery is alive and well. Which part of my children are not fully functioning, I’m intrigued? If I throw out some stereotypes about your state educated children would that be ok with you? I suspect you think it’s only acceptable for the insults to go one way.

I'd rather have them educated in outstanding state provision where they mix with fully functioning children

LOLOL!

'state provision where they mix with fully functioning children'

I see someones commas are not 'fully functioning'.

🤔

If you're paying £1500 in nursery fees you're far from an average earner. If the question is whether someone with enough income to pay nearly 2 1/2 grand a month in nursery fees can afford private school fees then the answer may be yes. Please don't call yourself an average earner though, it's important IMHO than more wealthy people realise their good fortune.

BertrandRussell (Great name btw) - Nothing dodgy IMHO of course. My take on this off the record chat was simply an understanding that certain children will have been spoon fed throughout their education and coached for interviews etc and others will not have had the same advantages. Two with the same predicted results, one appears to interview better based on better life experience, confidence and coaching, but when you look beyond that change the questions you ask,.... It's almost like trying to remove the bias from the process - in my day it was a one size fits all process.
The same kind of message has filtered through to me from several different credible sources over a few years. I definitely haven't tried to substantiate it but it is widely held amongst those I know and some of them should know.

The average HOUSEHOLD disposable income (so after taxes) is £29400

You are paying 2600 a month in nursery fees which is 31200 a year. I assume you then have money for mortgage, bills, food, clothes and fun so you are way above an ‘average’ income.

It does make me laugh when people say that if everyone ‘cut back’ they would be able to afford private school.
Our local private school ranges from £9k for infants to £15k a year for seniors. Say you have 2 children then private school is 18-30k a year. Leaving £11k in infants to minus £600 in seniors - not much cutting back can be done on that!!!!